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all right so uh so so welcome zach so i

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think like first of all let's uh kind of

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set the stage

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uh what we're talking about

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and so we're talking about the ignition

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forum yeah the ignatius forum and the

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ignatius family i believe is just a

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bunch of philanthropists well-connected

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people in washington who host these

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these forums every now and then and they

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had this forum at the washington

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national cathedral

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called our future in space which was

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held yesterday

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uh yesterday evening and they had uh a

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bunch of guests discussing the future of

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space

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and

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it says so i'll just read the

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description real quick so people get an

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overview it says space is a new frontier

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for humanity

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nasa is planning a next generation of

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exploration scientists are debating the

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possibility of extraterrestrial life and

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military planners are developing weapons

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for space warfare what does this space

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rush mean at a moment when private

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citizens are launching spaceships and

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the director of national intelligence

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has released a report assessing an

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identified aerial phenomenon

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as we look towards the heavens what does

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the possibility of life out there mean

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for our religious life

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and then they've got a bunch of uh of

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guests uh

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the first one were that appeared was

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bill nelson the head of nasa nasa

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administrator bill nelson former senator

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and former astronaut i believe

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uh and the director of national

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intelligence avril haynes

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and then jeff bezos

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uh head of amazon and the blue origin

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space program came on

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and then finally they had avi loeb

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right and david wilkerson an avialobe is

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an astronomer who's

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written a book called extraterrestrial

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and is setting up this program called

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the galileo program

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to look into the possibility of

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getting a good photograph of a ufo

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basically that's the main thrust of the

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program as well as studying things like

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the omua mua interstellar object that

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flew through the solar system yeah kind

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of a

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sort of

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general research thing trying to look

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for uh actual evidence yeah

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extraterrestrial life yeah

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yeah

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artifacts of extraterrestrial life and

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that's that's kind of like the

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difference between him and other people

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like you know seti searches for radio

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signals and avi loeb wants to search for

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physical objects physical artifacts and

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specifically ones that are within our

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solar system

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like if aliens have come to visit us

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more power to him yeah totally support

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it yeah yeah no i know i'm uh i talked

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to him i had him on the the show uh like

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a few months ago and um

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i'd be all for getting more photographs

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of ufos because

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it can only help if we if we get better

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photographs

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um

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and the final guy david wilkerson david

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wilkerson is a theologian and

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astrophysicist british guy i think uh

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and he talks a bit about kind of the

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religious uh aspects of it but he's also

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also an astrophysicist so i guess he

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talked about some of the physics as well

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but

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what we want to focus on mostly is kind

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of like we had a little bit of a desktop

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on twitter

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uh earlier where

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you were talking about

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uh what overall

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haines the director of national

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intelligence was talking about and you

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think that it's very significant and i

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was

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saying not so when you give your uh your

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take on it first and then we'll

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go from there

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yeah um i mean

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this is this is the very complicated and

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nuanced issue that i don't think can be

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hashed out easily over twitter

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um yeah

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the gist of

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how i feel about what is taking place

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right now with regards to the uap issue

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is that i think

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so if i come at it from your perspective

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if i come at it from a skeptical

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position or or attempt to try to put put

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myself in the shoes of someone who

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honestly the general population most

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people don't really take this stuff

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super seriously

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why is the the u.s government doing any

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of this

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is kind of the question that i would

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have right so

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why is it that the senate intelligence

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committee

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uh decided to look at this issue

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use the term the acronym uh uaep

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um

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which is known it's associated right

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with this with this idea in the um in in

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pop culture at this point thanks to ttsa

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and thanks to luella zondo and

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christopher mellon thanks to those

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people that term that acronym is

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directly associated

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with

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aliens whether we like it or not like it

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is right so whenever there is

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whenever there's anything in the media

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having to do with uap anytime the

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government sneezes uap

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there is a barrage of headlines that

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come out of

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everybody right everything from the the

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the tabloids you know to uh you know

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real uh

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reporting coming out of the new york

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times the washington post etc etc uh

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talking about this as if you know are we

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talking about aliens right

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and my argument is

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they must know

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at this point avril haines

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must know at this point that when

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they're using this language

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and maybe appearing at this conference

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they must know that

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the what they are doing is they are

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signaling to a whole lot of people

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that hey this thing that you believe

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that you the a lot of people are ready

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and willing to believe as you know

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it's not throwing cold water on it it's

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actually leaving the door wide open

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right sure and and this is kind of where

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i guess you and i this is the the crux

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of our disagreement

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is i do you actually feel that it is

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someone's responsibility i don't know

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who

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i can't point into like i can't press

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someone

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well i mean avril haynes is a good

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example um should the director of

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national national intelligence

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knowingly be going to these conferences

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or talking about this issue or even

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issuing the uap report

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um

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knowing that we're leaving this door

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wide open to the possibility of

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extraterrestrial life

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right knowing that there are people out

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there who are going to fill in the blank

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of what's not in the report right

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it should work

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yeah yeah

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there are people out there but you know

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how many people i guess is partly the

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issue there yeah

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you said obviously people are going to

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get excited and i knew that people would

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get excited because every time someone

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talks about the topic you know people

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get excited

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uh but if you look at their reaction to

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what's happened

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i did a search of like news i just did

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search for i think dni

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and uap just those two terms together

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and there was only one story

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uh

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in google news which was the new york

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post reprinting a story from the sun

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which is a trashy british tabloid who

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does you know like

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batboy

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type stories um

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so there's not been very much response

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yet but within ufo twitter which is you

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know maybe a few thousand people if that

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uh

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there was some excitement and you know

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you i guess exemplified that uh you're

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not probably not the most uh excited but

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you know you think there's definitely

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something there you were more kind of i

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think angry than excited i'm not excited

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exactly and i i you know this is

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so there's going to be people who watch

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this and they're going to be a little

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bit frustrated with me because i come at

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this at this point a little bit

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differently where i um

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i don't necessarily see confirmation of

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my personal feelings right about this

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issue um in everything that the

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government does

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right

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every time they sneeze euap i don't

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necessarily

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interpret that

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as like a confirmation of all the things

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i've ever looked at that i think are

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interesting and weird

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um

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and but but there are a lot of people

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out there who do

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right

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um and that is where my frustration

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comes from i i feel that the government

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is currently handling this issue in a

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very irresponsible way

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um

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where

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they are literally

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so

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in the past what they've done is they

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have thrown cold water on this issue

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anytime it's come up in the in the

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public sphere anytime people have had

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questions about roswell the government

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ultimately issues something along the

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lines of

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nothing to see here

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it's not aliens this is not what you

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think it is this is a glitch this is

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blah blah blah blah blah right and what

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we've had for the last several years is

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a different this is now taking on a

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different tone it's now taking on this

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tone of

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actually

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we're not saying it's not aliens anymore

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we're not doing that we're actually

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gonna just be extremely vague

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um

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now and why is that irresponsible i

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think it's especially irresponsible at a

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time when

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you've got christopher mellon and you've

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got lou elizondo out there lobbying on

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this issue and they are out right in

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front in public they are going on

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uh you know media outlets giving

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interviews talking about this obviously

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was connected to the to the you know

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uap program right he was the director of

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it or whatever and

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there's all sorts of issues we could get

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into there but like

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at this time

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the idea that like

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people in the pentagon are not aware

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of

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the ten the way that this story

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tentacles out

288
00:10:21,509 --> 00:10:19,519
every single time they say anything like

289
00:10:23,030 --> 00:10:21,519
the idea that they're not aware of that

290
00:10:24,710 --> 00:10:23,040
and then the idea yeah they are aware of

291
00:10:26,790 --> 00:10:24,720
it though aren't they like they've seen

292
00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:26,800
the yeah you've seen like the talking

293
00:10:32,069 --> 00:10:29,920
point memos that they have uh the the

294
00:10:34,230 --> 00:10:32,079
navy office especially because they've

295
00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:34,240
got so many inquiries they have talking

296
00:10:39,269 --> 00:10:37,440
points and they i think explicitly said

297
00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:39,279
somewhere in there that

298
00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:41,760
uh you know anytime we say something

299
00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:43,680
people get really excited and you have a

300
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:45,200
deluge of

301
00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:46,800
of inquiries so it's probably best not

302
00:10:50,949 --> 00:10:48,640
to say anything i think this basically

303
00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:50,959
said that perhaps not in those those you

304
00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:52,959
know straightforward words but they were

305
00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:53,920
you know

306
00:10:58,470 --> 00:10:56,240
no comment is the default thing

307
00:11:01,350 --> 00:10:58,480
yeah and that's interesting because they

308
00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:01,360
are i mean it's like okay you feel that

309
00:11:06,470 --> 00:11:03,760
way right it's like oh you know

310
00:11:08,389 --> 00:11:06,480
but then you're not doing anything about

311
00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:08,399
it you're not really coming out and

312
00:11:12,389 --> 00:11:10,240
clarifying anything for the public and

313
00:11:14,870 --> 00:11:12,399
you're seriously not

314
00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:14,880
so you're continuing to use the uap

315
00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:16,880
acronym that's one thing um and that's

316
00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:18,160
something i can get

317
00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:20,880
that acro like you know you say like

318
00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:23,360
acronym is associated with with aliens

319
00:11:25,990 --> 00:11:24,720
and stuff right now because of it's

320
00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:26,000
being a popular culture it wasn't the

321
00:11:31,030 --> 00:11:28,880
whole idea of of uap to get away from

322
00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:31,040
that like we had ufo before and everyone

323
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:33,200
thought ufo was still green now

324
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,910
so i mean what term should they have

325
00:11:40,030 --> 00:11:39,360
used

326
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:40,040
like

327
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:44,320
whatever you do we're talking about

328
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:46,160
things that are flying around in the sky

329
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:48,560
that are not immediately identifiable

330
00:11:52,550 --> 00:11:50,639
uh that's what a uap is which is a very

331
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,560
simple definition you could include like

332
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:54,639
like a whole number of things including

333
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,480
you know anything like fairly exotic

334
00:12:00,069 --> 00:11:58,399
like a foreign drone or things are

335
00:12:01,430 --> 00:12:00,079
fairly simple like

336
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:01,440
i don't know a balloon or something like

337
00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:02,720
that that's just too far away for the

338
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:04,240
pilot to actually see they're they're

339
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:07,360
all uaps yeah you know you say it's got

340
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:09,200
that association but if you use a

341
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:10,880
different term

342
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,920
you're gonna

343
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:13,519
so how can they how can they say

344
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:16,160
anything at all about the topic totally

345
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:17,839
so i i wanna be super clear about a

346
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,320
couple things so one i i actually like

347
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:22,160
uap i think it's a good term i think

348
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:24,240
it's better than ufo because it

349
00:12:29,509 --> 00:12:27,040
encompasses more things

350
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:29,519
um unfortunately the world that we live

351
00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:33,040
in though is one where

352
00:12:37,990 --> 00:12:35,440
the the way that this particular acronym

353
00:12:39,750 --> 00:12:38,000
was popularized was through to the

354
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:39,760
starters academy was through louis el

355
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:42,959
zando uh the way that that that so i

356
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:45,839
mean actually the beginning of it was um

357
00:12:50,230 --> 00:12:48,240
you know in america at least hillary

358
00:12:52,230 --> 00:12:50,240
clinton saying it uh

359
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:52,240
you know oh the new the new navigator

360
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,160
for this is uap

361
00:12:58,470 --> 00:12:56,480
uh and then to the stars academy and

362
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:58,480
luella lozando and christopher mellon

363
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,600
and unidentified and all that right sure

364
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:03,600
what can you do

365
00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:05,600
totally how can you get around that

366
00:13:10,230 --> 00:13:07,600
so that's america that's america's

367
00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:10,240
introduction to the term uap is like oh

368
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:12,320
okay so they're using a new term for ufo

369
00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:14,000
haha whatever

370
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:14,510
um

371
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,120
[Music]

372
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:19,440
but the people that are using that term

373
00:13:22,150 --> 00:13:20,480
the most

374
00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:22,160
and the people that are popularizing

375
00:13:26,949 --> 00:13:24,480
that term are people who do think that

376
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,959
this is something that represents uh a

377
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:28,720
very weird

378
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:31,040
thing yeah um i'm not gonna use any

379
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,720
particular language like we could be

380
00:13:36,150 --> 00:13:34,480
talking about e.t we'd be talking about

381
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,160
something from earth we could be talking

382
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:37,920
about interdimensional whatever it

383
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:40,399
doesn't really matter to me yeah um but

384
00:13:43,590 --> 00:13:42,160
the point is the the people that have

385
00:13:46,310 --> 00:13:43,600
been pushing this the most are people

386
00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:46,320
who do feel very strongly that it is

387
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:48,079
representative of something that is

388
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:50,000
weird they mean something pretty

389
00:13:53,829 --> 00:13:53,040
specific uh when they're talking about

390
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:53,839
this

391
00:13:58,470 --> 00:13:54,880
and

392
00:14:01,110 --> 00:13:58,480
the idea that the pentagon is like

393
00:14:03,269 --> 00:14:01,120
continuing to use this term in a public

394
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:03,279
realm without clarify without the

395
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:06,320
clarification of what they mean

396
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:08,959
that is the thing that bothers me

397
00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:11,120
they they define it

398
00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:13,600
so like you know in this this gillibrand

399
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:14,720
amendment which we're going to come to

400
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:17,199
later they actually um they put a

401
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:18,480
definition i think it's right at the

402
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:20,959
bottom of it let me just scroll down to

403
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:23,360
it this is a remarkably long thing so it

404
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:25,199
says the term unidentified aerial

405
00:14:30,310 --> 00:14:27,760
phenomena means airborne objects that

406
00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:30,320
are not immediately identified yeah

407
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:31,440
right straight away they could have kind

408
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:32,880
of got it wrong because it's not just

409
00:14:37,829 --> 00:14:35,760
airborne objects it's uh it's phenomenal

410
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:37,839
it's phenomenal uh sorry literally right

411
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:39,760
there in the actual light or something

412
00:14:45,670 --> 00:14:42,240
they they messed it up and then

413
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:45,680
transmedium objects or devices

414
00:14:49,990 --> 00:14:48,399
or and submerged objects or devices that

415
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:50,000
are not immediately identifiable and

416
00:14:52,629 --> 00:14:51,199
display behaviors of performance

417
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:52,639
characteristics suggesting they may be

418
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:54,000
related to the subjects described in

419
00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:55,920
some paragraphs a or b

420
00:14:59,829 --> 00:14:58,160
i mean it's like a ridiculous doesn't

421
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:59,839
matter

422
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:00,959
doesn't that sort of add to the

423
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:02,240
confusion though and that kind of

424
00:15:05,990 --> 00:15:04,480
underlines the the point that i'm making

425
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:06,000
here which is like

426
00:15:09,829 --> 00:15:08,000
so if i'm

427
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:09,839
look if i'm in the u.s government if i'm

428
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,079
in the pentagon um and i'm looking at

429
00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:14,240
this playing out i see the

430
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:16,000
the articles that get written in the

431
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:18,959
aftermath every time we drop the uuap

432
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:21,839
acronym i do one of two things i either

433
00:15:26,069 --> 00:15:23,120
clarify

434
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,079
really specifically like what this means

435
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:28,800
and what it doesn't mean um or i start

436
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:30,399
using a different freaking acronym at

437
00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:31,360
this point

438
00:15:34,230 --> 00:15:32,720
um

439
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:34,240
uav

440
00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:35,920
would work just as well like

441
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:38,240
unidentified

442
00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:40,240
you know i tell this story about how in

443
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:42,880
in britain we used to call uh other kids

444
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:45,600
in the playground uh spazz

445
00:15:50,870 --> 00:15:48,240
thing make sure for [\h__\h] and uh there

446
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:50,880
was a [\h__\h] society in britain okay

447
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:52,639
and the [\h__\h] society changed their

448
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:55,279
name to the scopes society and so the

449
00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:58,800
kids started calling each other scopers

450
00:16:02,949 --> 00:16:00,800
right because yeah the new word took on

451
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:02,959
the term uh took on the meaning of what

452
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:04,480
it's referring to now we're talking

453
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:07,279
about something a topic now is it

454
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:10,320
actually possible to to extricate like

455
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,120
this serious study of ufos

456
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:15,600
or whatever serious study of something

457
00:16:19,509 --> 00:16:18,000
and define it in such a way that it

458
00:16:21,749 --> 00:16:19,519
excludes

459
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:21,759
things that will lead to talk about

460
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:25,040
aliens i really feel that it's it's it's

461
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:26,720
not and

462
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:30,000
you know complaining about uap

463
00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:31,920
if you bring in a new term it's just

464
00:16:35,829 --> 00:16:34,079
going to take a little while it'd be

465
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:35,839
like a little stop gap before it becomes

466
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:37,040
infected

467
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:39,759
uh by the uh by the by the same meaning

468
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:40,720
as the previous time because you're

469
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:42,480
talking about a thing

470
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,240
that we all know what we're talking

471
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:46,720
about which is unidentified things in

472
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,920
the air

473
00:16:52,230 --> 00:16:49,199
we don't know where we don't know what

474
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,240
they are and they they might be aliens

475
00:16:55,590 --> 00:16:54,399
and everybody knows that they yeah this

476
00:16:57,749 --> 00:16:55,600
might be aliens and different people

477
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:57,759
give different possibilities to them a

478
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:00,399
lot of people is near zero and for some

479
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:02,639
people it's you know maybe 50 50 or some

480
00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:04,799
people they think absolutely the 100

481
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:06,640
some of these things are aliens

482
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:08,160
but this is what we're talking about

483
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:11,360
we're talking about a a thing a a

484
00:17:14,949 --> 00:17:12,880
actually i'm hesitating to use the word

485
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:14,959
phenomena because people think phenomena

486
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:16,079
means something

487
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:18,319
phenomenal or amazing but it just means

488
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:19,919
a thing that happens like weather

489
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:21,839
phenomena and things like that

490
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:23,039
so yeah

491
00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:26,000
yeah i think perhaps like like saying

492
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:28,240
they're wading into this uap thing and

493
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:30,880
using the term without clarifying it

494
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:32,960
well let's let's talk about what avril

495
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:34,400
haynes question she was asked about the

496
00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:36,240
uap report

497
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:37,039
and

498
00:17:40,549 --> 00:17:39,440
um i think

499
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:40,559
uh

500
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,679
he was she was asked by by the host

501
00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:45,360
uh about this report and says you

502
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:47,520
studied these 144 things you put them

503
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:50,080
into five categories um you know one of

504
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:52,559
them was yes was uh with something i

505
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,520
don't think they specified what the

506
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:54,960
categories were but we know what they

507
00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:57,520
are the first one is uh everyone clutter

508
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:58,960
like birds and balloons the second one

509
00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:01,760
is atmospheric phenomena like clouds and

510
00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:03,200
lights and the electrical stuff the

511
00:18:05,890 --> 00:18:04,400
third one is

512
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:05,900
uh american

513
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:07,039
[Music]

514
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,120
technology like secret military tests or

515
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,600
secret tests by american companies the

516
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:13,280
fourth one is the same thing but

517
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:14,720
foreigners likes trying to sneak in on

518
00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:17,679
spy on us without fancy technology and

519
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,440
then the fifth one is other

520
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:21,200
which everyone thinks is is where the

521
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:23,360
aliens might live in this other category

522
00:18:27,029 --> 00:18:24,960
but yeah it might just be stuff that we

523
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:27,039
just don't understand yet like

524
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:28,559
very strange aerial phenomena we don't

525
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:29,840
know about or

526
00:18:32,470 --> 00:18:31,440
or just something we haven't thought of

527
00:18:33,990 --> 00:18:32,480
yet

528
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,000
right um i don't know what that would be

529
00:18:38,870 --> 00:18:36,320
because it is unknown but

530
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:38,880
uh so she was asked about that and yeah

531
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:40,640
from my perspective the answer that she

532
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:43,280
gave up until the very end of her answer

533
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:46,640
was essentially a recap of the uap

534
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:48,880
report right which is this report that

535
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:50,400
the uh

536
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,720
national intelligence produced and it

537
00:18:59,190 --> 00:18:56,400
was released back in like may i think of

538
00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:59,200
this year uh was it june june this year

539
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:01,280
yeah some time ago this year

540
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:02,160
uh

541
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:04,960
yeah it was june and

542
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:06,720
so she she basically went through and

543
00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:08,400
said yeah though oh she's like we don't

544
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:10,400
understand what we're seeing uh there's

545
00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:12,559
there's lots of different categories

546
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:13,440
and

547
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:15,360
uh we we need better information

548
00:19:18,070 --> 00:19:16,720
gathering we need to get a more

549
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:18,080
consistent way of reporting the

550
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:20,240
information we need to do better ways of

551
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:22,480
integrating the data and uh collecting

552
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:24,480
information from different sensors

553
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:26,080
the main issues that congress and others

554
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,840
have been concerned about are basically

555
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,760
safety of flight concerns and counter

556
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:31,520
intelligence issues

557
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:33,600
and that's basically like the the the

558
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:35,840
report you know the the conclusions of

559
00:19:39,430 --> 00:19:38,160
the report and then she says her final

560
00:19:41,830 --> 00:19:39,440
thing which ever everyone's getting

561
00:19:43,510 --> 00:19:41,840
excited about but of course there's

562
00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:43,520
always the question of is there

563
00:19:47,230 --> 00:19:45,280
something else that we simply do not

564
00:19:49,190 --> 00:19:47,240
understand that might come

565
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:49,200
extraterrestrially and she kind of

566
00:19:53,669 --> 00:19:51,120
stumbled over the word extraterrestrial

567
00:19:55,190 --> 00:19:53,679
which is understandable because yes

568
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,200
i have to be careful there to pronounce

569
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:57,840
it but she said you know basically

570
00:20:01,909 --> 00:19:59,520
uh there's a question

571
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:01,919
as if there's something that might come

572
00:20:05,590 --> 00:20:03,840
extra terrestrially it seems rather

573
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:05,600
a strange way of phrasing it but i mean

574
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:07,679
essentially it's meaning that

575
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,799
what we're looking at is something

576
00:20:12,149 --> 00:20:10,799
that's come from space which pretty much

577
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:12,159
implies that it's some kind of alien

578
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:14,240
spaceship and yeah either something from

579
00:20:19,110 --> 00:20:17,280
a space or something so you know the way

580
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:19,120
that i've come to kind of talk about

581
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:21,600
this everyone gets um

582
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:22,559
uh

583
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:24,480
they trip over themselves like is it

584
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:26,320
aliens is it interdimensional is it that

585
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:29,120
is this does that ah weird [\h__\h] that's

586
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:30,000
what i'm

587
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:33,280
i i is it weird or not you know and

588
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,039
that's i i kind of get right to the

589
00:20:39,830 --> 00:20:37,200
point i don't really care is it aliens

590
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:39,840
is it this is that no no no um my my

591
00:20:44,789 --> 00:20:41,520
question is did we eliminate the

592
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:44,799
possibility of um a terrestrial uh

593
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:47,039
normal within the bounds of our everyday

594
00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,240
language explanation right or is it so

595
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:52,720
weird that it's now in this category of

596
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:55,840
weird stuff like that that cannot be

597
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:58,240
right and to me like the answer to that

598
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:00,240
should actually be relatively uh

599
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:03,600
straightforward but but uh it isn't for

600
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:04,960
four reasons

601
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:07,039
so okay that's that's that's a good

602
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:08,159
point so

603
00:21:10,590 --> 00:21:09,600
uh obviously what we're looking for

604
00:21:13,110 --> 00:21:10,600
something is something that's

605
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:13,120
unambiguously weird

606
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:14,960
that's the exact way that i would put it

607
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:17,919
yes yeah and this is what i would like i

608
00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:20,159
would like to see you know two videos of

609
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,520
a flying saucer from different

610
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:24,000
directions or like a really good uh yeah

611
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:26,960
you know high resolution photo like and

612
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:28,880
lots of different eyewitness accounts or

613
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:30,960
multiple photos of the same thing or you

614
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,400
know whatever something that's

615
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:34,240
unambiguous evidence something

616
00:21:38,470 --> 00:21:36,559
displaying any of the five observables

617
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:38,480
outside of the low observability one

618
00:21:42,470 --> 00:21:40,559
which obviously is like oh well it's too

619
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,480
far away we can't figure it out but

620
00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:45,120
we're looking for something that's doing

621
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:47,679
something that makes absolutely no sense

622
00:21:52,870 --> 00:21:50,400
within um any kind of you know normal

623
00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:52,880
convention and again for me it's like

624
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,240
that's

625
00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:57,120
that this is where i get caught on all

626
00:22:01,750 --> 00:21:59,200
of this um

627
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:01,760
because either it's weird or it isn't

628
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,559
and they either know or they don't and

629
00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:06,400
to me that part of this entire

630
00:22:12,190 --> 00:22:09,280
conversation is so straightforward and

631
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,200
the the vagaries around this are

632
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,640
extraordinarily frustrating

633
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:16,720
i i feel like they are saying that they

634
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:18,559
don't know right

635
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:19,760
yeah

636
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:23,679
well saying we don't have enough

637
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:30,630
then she says if you want to know the

638
00:22:34,149 --> 00:22:31,760
the the

639
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:34,159
if she essentially uh eludes i can't

640
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,520
remember the exact quote she alludes

641
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:37,200
like if you want to know the

642
00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:39,039
the stuff that i can't tell you you'd

643
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:41,120
have to come work for us right right and

644
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:43,120
this is

645
00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:45,120
that's on one hand it's like a funny

646
00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:47,360
quip on the other hand

647
00:22:52,110 --> 00:22:48,960
it's like

648
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,120
from my perspective this is deeply

649
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:54,799
irresponsible game and the reason why i

650
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:57,120
describe it that way is because it's

651
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:00,240
been going on now for several years

652
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:03,360
they've had time to see how this plays

653
00:23:07,590 --> 00:23:05,520
out again every time they mention uap

654
00:23:10,149 --> 00:23:07,600
every time they generate a report every

655
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:10,159
time louis lozando goes on tv whatever

656
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:11,600
they've had time

657
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:13,840
to kind of get their [\h__\h] together and

658
00:23:18,710 --> 00:23:16,000
uh their story straight on this

659
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:18,720
and the the reason why

660
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:23,120
mick why why ufo twitter um

661
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:25,039
they go ape [\h__\h] every time something

662
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:27,280
happens is because

663
00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:28,320
our

664
00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:29,840
the the people in positions of

665
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:31,280
leadership and the officials and the

666
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:33,520
representatives they are leaving this

667
00:23:38,789 --> 00:23:37,200
door wide open for us to do that

668
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:38,799
and um

669
00:23:42,789 --> 00:23:40,880
i guess i don't get it i don't really

670
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:42,799
get it why are they doing that i kind of

671
00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:45,279
agree but let me let me see say what

672
00:23:51,190 --> 00:23:47,840
that looks like from my perspective uh

673
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:51,200
as a not not really so much a skeptic

674
00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:53,440
just as someone who's not

675
00:23:57,269 --> 00:23:55,679
uh you know a believer that there

676
00:23:59,990 --> 00:23:57,279
actually is some extraordinary evidence

677
00:24:02,230 --> 00:24:00,000
out there or or a believer yeah someone

678
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:02,240
who doesn't put as much weight on the

679
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:05,440
subject as you for me it feels like and

680
00:24:08,950 --> 00:24:07,120
it always has felt like

681
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:08,960
that

682
00:24:12,390 --> 00:24:10,880
they don't really care about the ufo

683
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:12,400
community

684
00:24:17,269 --> 00:24:14,640
i i don't think the military really

685
00:24:20,070 --> 00:24:17,279
cares you know what you think or what i

686
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:20,080
think or even really so much what the

687
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,840
sun thinks or what the new york post

688
00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:23,600
thinks they might care a bit more about

689
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:25,120
what the new york times think but you

690
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:26,640
know they didn't really step into to

691
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:28,320
clarify that either

692
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:32,159
uh so i think that they don't really see

693
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,200
this um this confusion

694
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:37,760
and this misplaced excitement or this

695
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:39,520
correctly placed excitement depending on

696
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,799
your perspective

697
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:42,880
as being an issue that they need to

698
00:24:46,630 --> 00:24:44,080
address

699
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:46,640
that they seem to see it as more of an

700
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:47,840
annoyance

701
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:49,919
that you know like oh my god it's the

702
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:51,840
ufo people again

703
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:54,400
uh because

704
00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:55,760
it sounds like

705
00:25:00,149 --> 00:24:58,159
like i'm belittling the ufo community

706
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:00,159
there and i i understand the ufo

707
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:03,120
communist's uh interest in the topic and

708
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:04,240
i understand how it must be very

709
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:06,080
frustrating when you feel like you're

710
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:08,080
not taken seriously

711
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:10,559
but the ufo community is really the

712
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:12,159
serious ufo people like you know like i

713
00:25:16,310 --> 00:25:14,799
said ufo twitter is a few thousand

714
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:16,320
people at most and you know the active

715
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:18,480
people on ufo twitter you you you know

716
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:19,760
most of them

717
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:22,159
it's it's a very small community and

718
00:25:28,230 --> 00:25:25,440
it's mostly like guys between the age of

719
00:25:31,029 --> 00:25:28,240
20 and uh 40.

720
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:31,039
or something like that yeah

721
00:25:35,269 --> 00:25:33,039
yeah i i and i make the point all the

722
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:35,279
time um that

723
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:37,679
there's often this feeling or belief

724
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:40,559
amongst people on ufo twitter that

725
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:43,919
our actions um seem to cause things to

726
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:44,960
happen

727
00:25:48,870 --> 00:25:47,360
i don't agree with that assessment of

728
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:48,880
what i've seen play out over the last

729
00:25:53,110 --> 00:25:50,799
several years i actually see a situation

730
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:53,120
in which we have had no agency in

731
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,760
whatever is going on um there are people

732
00:25:58,870 --> 00:25:57,360
who are lobbying government from the

733
00:26:01,750 --> 00:25:58,880
outside who used to be part of

734
00:26:04,149 --> 00:26:01,760
government and things are happening

735
00:26:05,750 --> 00:26:04,159
right melan uh melanin and lou and and

736
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:05,760
others

737
00:26:09,350 --> 00:26:06,799
so

738
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:09,360
as far as like what we're doing to

739
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:11,919
contribute or to make things happen i

740
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,520
don't see it that way and that's why i

741
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:15,840
describe it as sort of it feels like a

742
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:18,159
game at this point especially if you're

743
00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:20,240
someone who's been involved or super

744
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:22,240
interested in this topic

745
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:25,120
this is the most frustrating time maybe

746
00:26:30,310 --> 00:26:28,080
ever uh because

747
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:30,320
we're all we're always on this cusp of

748
00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:31,760
this again

749
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:34,159
these these vagaries of language uh

750
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:36,400
coming out of the pentagon regarding

751
00:26:41,830 --> 00:26:39,440
this issue not at any point saying

752
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:41,840
it 100 is not this

753
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:43,120
um

754
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:44,960
and then to leave the door wide open and

755
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:46,640
say yeah there might be

756
00:26:50,310 --> 00:26:48,960
there could be there could be some weird

757
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,320
we might have

758
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:52,080
data confirming something weird but i'm

759
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,840
we're not going to tell you that

760
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:55,200
now and then

761
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:58,640
but but but also um

762
00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:01,679
my question is why is any of this public

763
00:27:05,669 --> 00:27:03,600
at all so like

764
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:05,679
so just thinking this thing through

765
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:07,279
logically

766
00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:09,520
if it's drones or it's foreign tech or

767
00:27:12,950 --> 00:27:11,200
it's this or it's that

768
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,960
why is there a public conversation

769
00:27:16,149 --> 00:27:14,559
happening about this at all because my

770
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:16,159
understanding of intelligence is that

771
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:18,480
that's the kind of thing that you don't

772
00:27:22,389 --> 00:27:21,120
you don't want our adversaries to know

773
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:22,399
that we are

774
00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:26,159
stumped about a thing that they have

775
00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:27,039
like that's

776
00:27:30,950 --> 00:27:29,600
birds and balloons

777
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:30,960
what's that

778
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:32,880
what are those birds and balloons

779
00:27:36,470 --> 00:27:34,399
the number one thing listed in the in

780
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:36,480
the europa report is that it's just ebb

781
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:37,520
one clutter

782
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:39,120
yeah yeah it's not all so

783
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:43,510
yeah and if that's their leading feeling

784
00:27:48,789 --> 00:27:46,640
or hunch then i'm even more confused

785
00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:48,799
because then why are you saying that we

786
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:50,880
suck at identifying uh birds and

787
00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:52,960
balloons yeah well

788
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,559
i think there's perfectly good reasons

789
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:56,720
for why we suck at entertaining birds

790
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:58,240
and balloons i mean we don't if there

791
00:28:02,149 --> 00:28:00,640
was a bird sat on my monitor right here

792
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:02,159
then i would be able to identify it but

793
00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:03,919
if there's a bird like the two miles

794
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,679
over there flying in the sky it looks

795
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:07,679
like a white speck and if i'm in a

796
00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:10,000
fighter jet and i see you know some

797
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:11,440
something like uh i don't know a large

798
00:28:14,549 --> 00:28:12,880
balloon or something that's off in the

799
00:28:16,389 --> 00:28:14,559
distance you

800
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:16,399
you can't immediately identify it i mean

801
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:17,919
uap the definition of europe is

802
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:18,880
generally something that's not

803
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:21,360
immediately identifiable now maybe you

804
00:28:24,549 --> 00:28:23,120
could fly over there and identify it but

805
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:24,559
maybe you're going in a different

806
00:28:28,470 --> 00:28:26,320
direction and you turn to look at it

807
00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:28,480
when it's gone or whatever but i'm not

808
00:28:31,909 --> 00:28:29,919
trying to argue that they're all birds

809
00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:31,919
or balloons obviously but

810
00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:33,200
you just you're saying like it's like

811
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:35,440
it's not a dichotomy between

812
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:38,880
uh a a topic that's like you know seeps

813
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:41,440
in in classified information because

814
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:44,080
it's all about foreign adversary drones

815
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:46,559
or it's you know nothing or it's uh yeah

816
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:47,840
average aliens there could be there's a

817
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:50,799
whole bunch of things yeah and yeah i i

818
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:52,080
think the military would prefer not to

819
00:28:58,389 --> 00:28:54,159
talk about it and that being kind of

820
00:29:01,029 --> 00:28:58,399
like shoehorned into by by this lobbying

821
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:01,039
yeah i agree i agree with that um and

822
00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:03,520
just to be clear i think that that

823
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:06,159
and again this will be unpopular uh

824
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:07,919
amongst people that i know

825
00:29:11,830 --> 00:29:09,039
um

826
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:11,840
i i think that it is possible that what

827
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:14,240
we're looking at is just a cluster [\h__\h]

828
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:15,600
um so i don't know if i could swear on

829
00:29:17,669 --> 00:29:16,799
your channel

830
00:29:22,870 --> 00:29:17,679
but

831
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:22,880
at a [\h__\h] of multiple things that

832
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:25,120
are going on this is kind of like your

833
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:27,039
hypothesis with what's going on with

834
00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:28,960
like the nimitz incident right i think

835
00:29:33,190 --> 00:29:30,640
it's possible

836
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:35,669
the military knows about foreign drones

837
00:29:38,950 --> 00:29:36,799
say

838
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,960
advanced stuff they don't really want to

839
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:40,799
talk about that definitely

840
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:43,200
but there are different compartments of

841
00:29:47,669 --> 00:29:45,760
of of people like you have witnesses on

842
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,679
the nimitz that see a thing they don't

843
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:49,200
know what it is

844
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:52,399
but the people that really do know

845
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:55,279
um are not gonna talk about it but

846
00:30:00,149 --> 00:29:57,520
there's witnesses talking about it

847
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,159
they're for all of this right so like

848
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,480
there's ways that i can imagine that all

849
00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:04,480
of this sort of happens from chasing our

850
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:07,520
own shadows um you know and chasing our

851
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:08,799
own tail

852
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:10,159
now

853
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:12,880
my problem still though even if that's

854
00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:14,720
the case and i'm not even saying that

855
00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:16,000
that's what i believe i'm just saying

856
00:30:20,789 --> 00:30:18,159
it's possible um

857
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:20,799
even if that's all the case

858
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:23,760
at some point i i feel that there is a

859
00:30:28,789 --> 00:30:26,240
situation here where they are creating a

860
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:28,799
problem for themselves uh an unforced

861
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:32,080
error of judgment um

862
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:34,399
where and again that you know we can we

863
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:35,520
can uh

864
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:37,679
agree or disagree but

865
00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:39,520
there are literal

866
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:42,559
ufo cults out there there are

867
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:45,840
actually dangerous people out there that

868
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:50,159
any time that they can zero in on

869
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:51,600
something that the government actually

870
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:54,799
in fact did or did say and this ufo

871
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:56,960
thing is perfect because they're saying

872
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:58,720
well we're not saying it's not aliens

873
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:00,799
we're not saying this but that's it like

874
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:04,880
a confirmation for so many um

875
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:06,080
radical

876
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:08,000
dangerous groups and i'm not talking

877
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:10,000
about the ones that we see today

878
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:13,279
i'm talking about the potential right

879
00:31:19,269 --> 00:31:16,240
the q anon took a while to percolate to

880
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:19,279
come up right um and and it was built

881
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:22,000
off of a bunch of things right and it

882
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:24,320
ultimately was nothing there actually

883
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:26,799
was no cue but the point is that it

884
00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:29,840
doesn't take a lot to for people to be

885
00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:33,360
radicalized by vagaries by by things

886
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:35,919
that seem to confirm what you believe so

887
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:38,399
i'm i'm wondering why is the government

888
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:40,559
creating this problem for themselves

889
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:42,960
you're literally giving people gallons

890
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:46,799
and gallons of fuel for their conspiracy

891
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:49,360
conspiracy theories um and allowing them

892
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:51,840
to fill in the blanks with all sorts of

893
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:55,760
dangerous ideas um or to listen to

894
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:57,760
you there's only say there's a loon in

895
00:32:02,710 --> 00:32:00,159
the ufo community who's making a bunch

896
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:02,720
of claims they say everything from i'm a

897
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:05,360
time traveler from the future to i know

898
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,799
the prophecy of the thing that's going

899
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:08,399
to happen next week

900
00:32:11,990 --> 00:32:10,000
um okay

901
00:32:15,269 --> 00:32:12,000
and as and and

902
00:32:16,789 --> 00:32:15,279
their evidence their proofs become well

903
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:16,799
look at what the government is doing

904
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:19,279
right and then unfortunately an

905
00:32:24,149 --> 00:32:21,360
unfortunate reality is there are people

906
00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:24,159
that are vulnerable enough to buy into

907
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:26,080
that loon that person that's out there

908
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:28,480
doing that thing and saying that

909
00:32:36,389 --> 00:32:32,470
that yeah

910
00:32:38,789 --> 00:32:36,399
so it's not a matter of like

911
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:38,799
i feel that the government ought to be

912
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:41,679
more responsible it's not a matter of

913
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:44,559
are they or aren't they or whatever i i

914
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:48,559
just i feel very very strongly that

915
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:50,240
they need to

916
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,880
get this issue under control

917
00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:55,120
right because look what am i i'm just

918
00:32:58,870 --> 00:32:56,960
someone who's really interested in in

919
00:33:02,389 --> 00:32:58,880
the ufo topic

920
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:02,399
and what i don't want to see is more bs

921
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:05,120
and more disinformation and more cult of

922
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:07,760
personality more cult type of behavior i

923
00:33:11,350 --> 00:33:10,000
don't want to see that stuff i don't see

924
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:11,360
more of that

925
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:13,519
and this what the government is doing is

926
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:16,559
actually fueling more of what i don't

927
00:33:21,509 --> 00:33:18,159
want right

928
00:33:24,230 --> 00:33:21,519
i actually do want the evidence of et i

929
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:24,240
actually do want the weird information

930
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:26,720
out of the government but if the way

931
00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:29,279
that the game is going to get played is

932
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:30,880
we're going to be really really vague

933
00:33:34,149 --> 00:33:32,159
and we're actually just going to pour

934
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:34,159
fuel on conspiracy theorists and we're

935
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:35,519
not going to actually answer your

936
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:38,080
question then no i actually would prefer

937
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:40,240
that all of this would come to a halt

938
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:42,880
because i think that is potentially

939
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:46,559
so dangerous and bad anyway that's mine

940
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:47,440
yeah

941
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:48,640
do you understand

942
00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:50,399
i see i see the point so

943
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:52,240
your thing you're to sum up your

944
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:53,679
argument uh

945
00:33:57,669 --> 00:33:55,679
you think that the government's being

946
00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:57,679
irresponsible in letting drips of

947
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:59,279
information out and not clarifying what

948
00:34:03,509 --> 00:34:00,320
they mean

949
00:34:06,549 --> 00:34:03,519
and this is giving false hope to people

950
00:34:08,790 --> 00:34:06,559
who uh or at least ammunition to people

951
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:08,800
who will then use it to to further their

952
00:34:13,030 --> 00:34:11,200
cults or to start new cults uh and this

953
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:13,040
can lead to bad things

954
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:14,960
uh the the biggest example of that

955
00:34:19,990 --> 00:34:17,200
obviously is the heavens gate cult yeah

956
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:20,000
which was a a ufo cult very much so it

957
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:22,240
wasn't just like you know the ufos at

958
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:24,399
the end it was ufos for like 20 years

959
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:26,079
and then they all killed themselves well

960
00:34:30,710 --> 00:34:28,079
and you can imagine how the heavens gate

961
00:34:33,750 --> 00:34:30,720
cult if they existed today how they

962
00:34:35,589 --> 00:34:33,760
would use this information uh to

963
00:34:37,990 --> 00:34:35,599
integrate into their

964
00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:38,000
thing that ultimately resulted in in a

965
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:39,520
bunch of people taking their own lives

966
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,679
and i think that sucks right like i

967
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:43,520
think it's yeah it's a bit i don't know

968
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:45,359
though i think i think you it's it's a

969
00:34:50,869 --> 00:34:47,040
difficult argument to make that it's

970
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:50,879
going to cause such harm i i think like

971
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:51,760
there's

972
00:34:55,829 --> 00:34:54,079
the military and and and you say

973
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,839
you know you got to clarify this ufo

974
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:57,119
thing otherwise we're going to get a

975
00:35:00,550 --> 00:34:58,880
whole bunch of cults in the future and

976
00:35:01,990 --> 00:35:00,560
people might kill themselves or blow up

977
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:02,000
the pentagon well i mean i can give a

978
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:03,760
couple probably gonna laugh at you i can

979
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:05,520
give a concrete example right now you

980
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:08,560
know dr steven greer right um now while

981
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:10,160
he hasn't caused anyone to off

982
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:11,520
themselves

983
00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:13,920
um there are a lot of people who believe

984
00:35:20,470 --> 00:35:17,359
that there's a coming uh government uh

985
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:20,480
you know false alienation pleasure

986
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:22,640
well no he's right yeah he think he's

987
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:24,400
his big thing is that

988
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:27,119
the government is going to

989
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:29,599
when the ufos come don't trust it

990
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:32,000
because werner von braun said

991
00:35:36,310 --> 00:35:34,240
blah blah blah blah blah right like the

992
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:36,320
yes it's fake it's not going to be real

993
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:38,320
and that they're going to use this and

994
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:40,240
it will be a fake alien invasion and

995
00:35:42,550 --> 00:35:41,359
this is their

996
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:42,560
they're going to come in for total

997
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:44,960
control

998
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:47,920
it just i i don't know where that leads

999
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:50,640
i don't know i don't know if dr steven

1000
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:52,000
greer is going to cause people to

1001
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:53,680
actually do something stupid but the

1002
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,599
point is that there's a potential there

1003
00:35:59,190 --> 00:35:57,680
and anytime there's a potential there

1004
00:36:01,270 --> 00:35:59,200
it's um

1005
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:01,280
that's the thing that bothers me

1006
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:02,640
well i think i think that with with

1007
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:04,320
stephen greer the problem is if you're a

1008
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:06,240
follower of street and steven greer and

1009
00:36:10,950 --> 00:36:08,880
you go to these these c5 things

1010
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:10,960
you will get uh

1011
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:13,200
what seems to use to be unequivocal

1012
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:16,240
evidence of of of aliens like you'll see

1013
00:36:19,750 --> 00:36:17,839
lights in the sky and you'll feel a

1014
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:19,760
great peace come over your soul as the

1015
00:36:23,670 --> 00:36:22,240
alien beings communicate with you and uh

1016
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:23,680
yeah there's lots of people here they

1017
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:25,200
pay their two thousand dollars and go

1018
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:27,040
into the deserts and he teaches them how

1019
00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:28,640
to meditate and then they think that

1020
00:36:32,390 --> 00:36:30,560
they have some kind of communion with

1021
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:32,400
aliens points at a satellite and says

1022
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:33,920
it's a ufo

1023
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,400
but they're deep believers so in in that

1024
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:38,400
sense it's not gonna matter what the

1025
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:40,720
well the government does because

1026
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:42,400
it does nothing it's just like they're

1027
00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:44,320
covering each other even more

1028
00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:46,240
yeah but if the government's em is

1029
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:48,160
making what appears to be a good faith

1030
00:36:52,470 --> 00:36:51,200
effort at investigating it and then

1031
00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:52,480
doesn't really find something and makes

1032
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:54,800
a bit of a crappy job of explaining what

1033
00:36:57,750 --> 00:36:56,000
they're doing

1034
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:57,760
i don't really see that as being you

1035
00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:59,920
know fueled to the fire for the stephen

1036
00:37:03,349 --> 00:37:00,880
greer

1037
00:37:04,470 --> 00:37:03,359
like deciding well but it is though

1038
00:37:06,550 --> 00:37:04,480
because

1039
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:06,560
again either it is

1040
00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:09,839
either there is weird data like genuine

1041
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:11,839
on it what i would say unambiguously

1042
00:37:16,470 --> 00:37:14,320
weird but they have this the disciples

1043
00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:16,480
already have the the weird data and it's

1044
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,320
what do they care about uh you know what

1045
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:20,160
the government has they assume that the

1046
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:22,640
government has it already the the most

1047
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:25,359
vulnerable vulnerable people

1048
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:27,520
out there that are sort of willing to

1049
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:30,240
believe whatever yes they have it

1050
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,560
but i'm talking about everybody else and

1051
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:34,240
this is what i mean by so these things

1052
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:37,040
can spread so on one layer you have the

1053
00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:38,640
most vulnerable people that buy into

1054
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:41,040
steven greer on another layer you have

1055
00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:43,760
the people that are like okay i don't i

1056
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:46,079
need some evidence well some evidence is

1057
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:48,560
the us government is investigating this

1058
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:51,359
and look they're doing things right so

1059
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:53,760
it's just more it's more layers of

1060
00:37:58,230 --> 00:37:56,480
things it's a it's a it's an entry point

1061
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:58,240
for a lot of people to come into this

1062
00:38:02,069 --> 00:38:00,400
and go well i actually i didn't even

1063
00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:02,079
care about this issue before but now i

1064
00:38:07,750 --> 00:38:05,280
do now it's on 60 minutes this has been

1065
00:38:09,670 --> 00:38:07,760
an entry point for a lot of people that

1066
00:38:12,069 --> 00:38:09,680
did not care previously i talk to people

1067
00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:12,079
every day who say to me zach i didn't

1068
00:38:16,710 --> 00:38:14,960
really care about this until i saw xyz

1069
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:16,720
now i'm taking it seriously i see you're

1070
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:19,520
interested like you're a serious person

1071
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:21,119
tell me what's what's really going on

1072
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:22,320
and of course i tell them i don't know

1073
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:25,680
what the hell is going on but i am i too

1074
00:38:30,630 --> 00:38:28,960
am interested um

1075
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:30,640
yeah

1076
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:33,200
what do you think the government should

1077
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:35,040
do in like say there's two cases here

1078
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:37,040
like either they have evidence

1079
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:39,520
unambiguous evidence of of of

1080
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:40,720
strangeness

1081
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:43,280
or they don't have unambiguous evidence

1082
00:38:46,790 --> 00:38:44,960
they have like this bunch of you know

1083
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,800
dots in the distance and pilots giving

1084
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:48,720
reports of weird things happening that

1085
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:51,040
can't be corroborated so there's two

1086
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:54,079
cases there a and b so for case a

1087
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:55,839
if they have that evidence what should

1088
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:57,920
they do right now

1089
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:59,680
it's a really great question because

1090
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:00,640
it's

1091
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:04,160
th this is part of why so many people uh

1092
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:07,119
in the ufo realm uh really buy into this

1093
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:08,400
is because

1094
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:11,520
well like like what would you do

1095
00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:14,000
you probably wouldn't release it all at

1096
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:16,240
once it would be something that you'd

1097
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:18,480
want to reveal slowly

1098
00:39:22,710 --> 00:39:21,520
again it it feeds into the whole damn

1099
00:39:23,990 --> 00:39:22,720
thing and

1100
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:24,000
yeah

1101
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:26,160
what which one do you think will assess

1102
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:28,720
but sure so yeah they want to release it

1103
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:30,560
slowly they want to manage uh

1104
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,560
expectations and stuff

1105
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:34,320
which is probably true so people are

1106
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:36,640
saying what's going on with this this

1107
00:39:39,990 --> 00:39:38,160
thing in the church in the washington

1108
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:40,000
national national cathedral like they

1109
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:41,680
had the whole religious aspect of it

1110
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:43,040
there as if they were trying to like

1111
00:39:47,190 --> 00:39:44,720
soften the blow to religion here are the

1112
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:47,200
religious people right i mean i it's

1113
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:49,359
like on one hand it's like the ufo

1114
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:51,359
people read that into it on the other

1115
00:39:55,190 --> 00:39:53,440
hand it's really on the nose and

1116
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:55,200
actually really close to you know what

1117
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:56,800
i'm saying and that's that's where this

1118
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:58,640
get it it's genuinely kind of

1119
00:40:02,470 --> 00:40:00,560
complicated and it's not something that

1120
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:02,480
can be hashed out like i said just you

1121
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:04,640
and i debating over twitter this is a

1122
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:07,200
complicated conversation

1123
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:08,160
um

1124
00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,200
again

1125
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,280
optics it's like at what point does

1126
00:40:15,829 --> 00:40:13,280
avril hain say

1127
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:15,839
huh the optics of me showing up at a

1128
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:18,000
conference where several people were

1129
00:40:22,790 --> 00:40:19,920
talking about the possibility of

1130
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:22,800
extraterrestrial life

1131
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:24,400
is this the most responsible thing that

1132
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:27,760
i can do yeah um is it

1133
00:40:32,069 --> 00:40:29,599
say they do have it do you think is this

1134
00:40:34,069 --> 00:40:32,079
what they're doing right now yes suppose

1135
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:34,079
this is like their attempt at soft

1136
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:35,520
disclosure you think they're doing it

1137
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:37,359
right or is there a better way than no i

1138
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:39,440
i don't think they're doing it right my

1139
00:40:43,510 --> 00:40:41,359
view is

1140
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:43,520
it would be better if if there is

1141
00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:45,839
unambiguous data

1142
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:48,400
of something weird and it's not uh for

1143
00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:50,560
an adversary or whatever

1144
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:51,920
i think the better way to do would just

1145
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:53,520
be to

1146
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:56,160
do it just come out with it just say

1147
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:57,680
right so

1148
00:41:02,470 --> 00:41:00,400
an example that i give is like so with

1149
00:41:05,670 --> 00:41:02,480
the nimitz incident my opinion of the

1150
00:41:07,829 --> 00:41:05,680
nimitz incident is that someone knows um

1151
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:07,839
right and and we could go back and forth

1152
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:09,200
about that but like

1153
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:12,720
someone knows the there were data bricks

1154
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:14,400
there were

1155
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:17,440
dozens of sensor systems like we have no

1156
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:20,000
access to any of that but someone does

1157
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:22,160
or did or whatever maybe the data

1158
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:24,079
doesn't exist anymore right maybe it

1159
00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:25,920
turned out it was balloons as you say or

1160
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:27,359
whatever and they just threw the data

1161
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,680
aside and were like screw it but also

1162
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,359
it's classified because you know

1163
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:34,000
classified sensor systems

1164
00:41:38,470 --> 00:41:36,640
but someone somewhere in my opinion

1165
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:38,480
is able to clarify that one way or the

1166
00:41:43,109 --> 00:41:40,079
other um

1167
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:43,119
if it were unambiguously weird data they

1168
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:46,160
saw an object go from here

1169
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:48,480
to really really high up to like back

1170
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:50,960
down look whatever any one of those

1171
00:41:55,150 --> 00:41:52,560
things that was claimed that these

1172
00:41:57,510 --> 00:41:55,160
objects did if they had hard

1173
00:41:58,630 --> 00:41:57,520
unambiguously weird data showing that it

1174
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:58,640
did that

1175
00:42:02,710 --> 00:42:01,200
um from multiple sensor systems it's

1176
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:02,720
like okay like

1177
00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:04,960
if you have it then release that now if

1178
00:42:07,990 --> 00:42:06,079
they don't

1179
00:42:09,349 --> 00:42:08,000
maybe it's unambiguously weird and it

1180
00:42:11,109 --> 00:42:09,359
scared the [\h__\h] out of them and they

1181
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:11,119
don't know what to do that's another

1182
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:13,119
possibility i don't know

1183
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:14,640
but this

1184
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:17,680
this particular like what feels to me

1185
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:19,599
like a game

1186
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,240
it's not a lot of fun i'm like i know

1187
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:24,720
ufo twitter they they like enjoy

1188
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:25,599
the

1189
00:42:29,349 --> 00:42:26,960
drip of things that come out and

1190
00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:29,359
whatever but to me

1191
00:42:37,109 --> 00:42:34,870
again either the unambiguously weird

1192
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:37,119
stuff is there or it isn't

1193
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:40,079
and anything in between um either saying

1194
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:42,480
it's not there or it is there

1195
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:45,119
is just sort of a kind of game

1196
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:47,520
um okay so yeah you think they're being

1197
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:48,400
too

1198
00:42:53,910 --> 00:42:51,839
uh equivocating right now like so yeah

1199
00:42:56,150 --> 00:42:53,920
let's let's just yeah so that you kind

1200
00:42:57,990 --> 00:42:56,160
of gave the scenario there for if they

1201
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:58,000
did have the evidence but say there's no

1202
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:59,839
evidence whatsoever that's ambiguous

1203
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:02,000
that's unambiguous and right they can't

1204
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:03,599
tell you for sure that there's something

1205
00:43:07,750 --> 00:43:05,680
weird going on and it's more or less as

1206
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:07,760
they describe in the uap report like

1207
00:43:13,589 --> 00:43:11,359
need more data type type of thing

1208
00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:13,599
uh how are they not handling it

1209
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:16,480
uh correctly if that is the case

1210
00:43:22,309 --> 00:43:18,800
now if what is the case if

1211
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:22,319
if if if it is uh the case that they

1212
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:24,160
just don't have enough data to make a

1213
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:25,839
determination or something strange is

1214
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:27,920
going on you know like basically what i

1215
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:29,359
think you know the skeptic's point of

1216
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:31,680
view it doesn't seem like there are yeah

1217
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:33,280
strange things flying around in the sky

1218
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:34,800
we don't have the data if that is the

1219
00:43:37,030 --> 00:43:35,920
case

1220
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:37,040
um

1221
00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:38,640
how is their response

1222
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:40,400
right now and the way they're acting

1223
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:41,200
uh

1224
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,520
failing and how could they do better

1225
00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:45,119
well

1226
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:48,000
they they could simply say we yeah they

1227
00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:49,359
could look at the data and they could

1228
00:43:53,750 --> 00:43:52,000
say there is no unambiguously weird data

1229
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:53,760
here that

1230
00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:56,560
something along those lines or

1231
00:43:59,430 --> 00:43:58,000
or isn't that kind of in the report

1232
00:44:02,390 --> 00:43:59,440
isn't that really what the report says

1233
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:02,400
though it doesn't say in those words but

1234
00:44:07,349 --> 00:44:04,800
right i mean so you know

1235
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:07,359
look you know equivocate this yeah

1236
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:08,880
you know the problem with the report as

1237
00:44:13,349 --> 00:44:10,720
well as i do people it's a choose your

1238
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:13,359
own adventure report so

1239
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:15,839
if you're you

1240
00:44:20,829 --> 00:44:18,640
there it's like oh well it's

1241
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:20,839
possibilities or glitches blah blah

1242
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:23,760
blah birds balloons whatever

1243
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:24,880
if you

1244
00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:26,720
want to believe in aliens that's also

1245
00:44:30,069 --> 00:44:28,720
there in those 18 cases where they saw

1246
00:44:33,030 --> 00:44:30,079
some weird stuff that didn't make any

1247
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:33,040
sense like that that report

1248
00:44:37,589 --> 00:44:34,720
right it's literally a choose your own

1249
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:37,599
adventure report and that's actually my

1250
00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:39,760
my problem with it is it's and look it

1251
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:41,760
was a preliminary report and they

1252
00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:43,280
probably did not have their time to get

1253
00:44:46,390 --> 00:44:44,720
their [\h__\h] together and get out

1254
00:44:48,550 --> 00:44:46,400
something that was good there's a

1255
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:48,560
question of how much access to data did

1256
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:49,680
they have

1257
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,520
did they actually have access to the

1258
00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:53,280
data bricks from the nimitz incident or

1259
00:44:58,390 --> 00:44:55,200
forget the nimitz incident any any one

1260
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:58,400
of the 144 or whatever cases did they

1261
00:45:02,230 --> 00:45:00,560
actually have access to the raw

1262
00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:02,240
data

1263
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:03,760
and it sounds like they kind of maybe

1264
00:45:06,150 --> 00:45:04,720
didn't

1265
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:06,160
that's a problem

1266
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:09,200
um yeah well i don't think they were an

1267
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:12,160
investigative body yeah i think

1268
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:14,480
people make much of the fact that they

1269
00:45:19,349 --> 00:45:17,040
solved one of the cases and it was a

1270
00:45:21,430 --> 00:45:19,359
balloon i think that's just like one of

1271
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:21,440
the cases just happens to be solved by

1272
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,200
someone while they were

1273
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:25,440
looking into it it's that's like the one

1274
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:27,440
where it just was unambiguously pretty

1275
00:45:33,750 --> 00:45:30,000
clearly a balloon like the yeah the bit

1276
00:45:36,470 --> 00:45:35,190
yeah someone looked at it and they were

1277
00:45:37,829 --> 00:45:36,480
like oh that's that's definitely a

1278
00:45:39,510 --> 00:45:37,839
balloon and maybe they got access to

1279
00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:39,520
just enough data to prove yeah that's

1280
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:42,319
definitely a balloon yeah um but you

1281
00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:43,680
know there's a ques there's a question

1282
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:45,040
about how much data that they have

1283
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:47,440
access to for any of those other cases

1284
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:48,720
and you look at the amount of time that

1285
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:50,240
it took to generate that report and it's

1286
00:45:53,430 --> 00:45:51,760
almost impossible that they could have

1287
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:53,440
gotten enough

1288
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:56,240
information right so sure sure and and

1289
00:45:59,670 --> 00:45:58,079
like in an actual investigation of these

1290
00:46:02,630 --> 00:45:59,680
things takes a lot of time and probably

1291
00:46:05,990 --> 00:46:02,640
uh yeah the reason we have ufos

1292
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:06,000
is that we have ambiguous data like if

1293
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:08,079
if all data was unambiguous there

1294
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:10,560
wouldn't be any ufos so right you're

1295
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:12,560
starting out with the best cases

1296
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:15,200
essentially the most ambiguous things

1297
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:16,480
the things that exist just on the

1298
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:18,160
boundary of looking a little bit

1299
00:46:21,589 --> 00:46:20,400
interesting but still being being being

1300
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:21,599
ambiguous

1301
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:23,200
and you know they they couldn't really

1302
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:24,400
push

1303
00:46:29,349 --> 00:46:25,839
the boundary back up very much with

1304
00:46:32,630 --> 00:46:29,359
those cases but uh yeah i thought we're

1305
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:34,950
the report i think

1306
00:46:39,349 --> 00:46:37,040
from my perspective which of course is

1307
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:39,359
you know just completely uh at odds with

1308
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:43,280
ufo twitter's is is that they're saying

1309
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,800
we only have ambiguous data

1310
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:48,720
because in all the cases they said we

1311
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:51,520
need more study we can't tell if this

1312
00:46:56,390 --> 00:46:53,440
means anything like we we might need to

1313
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:56,400
invent new science to understand uh you

1314
00:46:59,750 --> 00:46:58,400
know this because we

1315
00:47:01,589 --> 00:46:59,760
yeah that that sounds like i guess that

1316
00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:01,599
kind of sounds ambiguously strange a

1317
00:47:05,589 --> 00:47:03,359
little but uh i don't think it really is

1318
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:05,599
because it's it's really just it's like

1319
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:07,920
say you've got a mysterious stain on

1320
00:47:11,109 --> 00:47:09,440
something and you you actually need to

1321
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:11,119
get a more powerful microscope to look

1322
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:12,640
at what it actually is it doesn't mean

1323
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:14,240
it's it means you just haven't you don't

1324
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:16,079
have the resolving power

1325
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:18,560
to figure out what something is but yeah

1326
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:20,400
i that's that's

1327
00:47:24,950 --> 00:47:22,240
what my perspective is and i think that

1328
00:47:27,030 --> 00:47:24,960
goes over to avril haynes's statement

1329
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:27,040
and she's just basically repeating that

1330
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:28,800
like there are things

1331
00:47:32,710 --> 00:47:30,559
in the air we don't know what they are

1332
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:32,720
you know like obama said yeah there are

1333
00:47:36,630 --> 00:47:34,880
things flying around

1334
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:36,640
but like you went she went like a

1335
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:38,480
strange she went to a conference with

1336
00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:40,800
where abby loeb was speaking like

1337
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:43,200
okay yeah and and that you know there's

1338
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:45,599
a conscious decision and and i'm not

1339
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:47,440
it's not a matter of like i'm trying to

1340
00:47:51,589 --> 00:47:49,760
read into that it's more like

1341
00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:51,599
it's so on the nose

1342
00:47:57,349 --> 00:47:54,480
that you could not it's impossible

1343
00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:57,359
so improbable to me that she looked at

1344
00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:58,960
who was speaking at that conference what

1345
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:00,480
it was going to be about

1346
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:02,640
and like didn't have a moment of like

1347
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:05,280
should i do this

1348
00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:07,200
well there was jeff bezos there and he

1349
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:09,440
gave a really long boring talk about you

1350
00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:10,960
know oh yeah

1351
00:48:14,549 --> 00:48:12,960
living in space look we all tuned out

1352
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:14,559
for that no one was listening to that

1353
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:17,040
part of it um oh listen to it but it was

1354
00:48:19,510 --> 00:48:18,240
yeah it's like yeah it's basically

1355
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:19,520
science fiction we can have a trillion

1356
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:21,440
people in space in space constructs and

1357
00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:23,119
it's going to be great and then aviolo

1358
00:48:25,829 --> 00:48:24,400
comes in and he's like i don't think we

1359
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:25,839
should go into space

1360
00:48:28,390 --> 00:48:27,280
i think we should just send robots into

1361
00:48:29,910 --> 00:48:28,400
space and we should all live here

1362
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:29,920
because you know we were designed by

1363
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:31,839
nature to live on the planet so they had

1364
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,440
a whole bunch of very different people

1365
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:35,280
they didn't yeah just because avialobe

1366
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:36,480
was there it doesn't mean that she kind

1367
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:38,319
of endorses his viewpoints yeah the

1368
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:40,000
other guy was david wilkerson or

1369
00:48:41,910 --> 00:48:40,880
something

1370
00:48:44,069 --> 00:48:41,920
uh

1371
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:44,079
he he thought that aliens were not

1372
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:45,280
visiting

1373
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:47,520
yeah because he was asked explicitly and

1374
00:48:52,069 --> 00:48:49,200
uh yeah i think you know

1375
00:48:53,589 --> 00:48:52,079
there were you know but bill nelson yeah

1376
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:53,599
bill nelson um

1377
00:48:57,109 --> 00:48:56,160
aliens were brought up a lot

1378
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:57,119
during

1379
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:58,880
throughout the course of the conference

1380
00:49:03,109 --> 00:49:01,040
um i i don't remember if it was posed to

1381
00:49:04,470 --> 00:49:03,119
bezos or not i think he might have been

1382
00:49:06,549 --> 00:49:04,480
dismissive i think he might have said

1383
00:49:07,990 --> 00:49:06,559
yeah i don't think he he mentioned

1384
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:08,000
aliens but yeah i think he's the type of

1385
00:49:12,790 --> 00:49:10,400
guy who would not be uh that into it

1386
00:49:15,030 --> 00:49:12,800
because he's a very nuts and bolts guy

1387
00:49:17,270 --> 00:49:15,040
yeah and i think like like elon musk he

1388
00:49:19,109 --> 00:49:17,280
assumes that if there are aliens he

1389
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:19,119
would know about it because he's you

1390
00:49:22,309 --> 00:49:20,559
know the richest man in the world and he

1391
00:49:23,829 --> 00:49:22,319
has these incredible resources and he's

1392
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:23,839
got his fingers in lots of pieces

1393
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:26,079
they're in on it nick

1394
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:28,640
oh yeah of course

1395
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:31,440
look i'm joking but uh you know that's

1396
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:32,800
look that's what that's what people

1397
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:34,160
really there's a lot of people really

1398
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:35,760
think that it's like oh well if they

1399
00:49:40,790 --> 00:49:37,680
yeah if they're playing dumb that must

1400
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:40,800
mean they're in on it and um hey maybe

1401
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:42,960
but i'm gonna i i

1402
00:49:47,589 --> 00:49:44,880
yeah one reason why i think you and i

1403
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:47,599
get along is that ultimately i actually

1404
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:50,640
am a pretty evidence-driven person now

1405
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:52,480
there's all sorts of weird things that

1406
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:54,000
i'm willing to kind of entertain on my

1407
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:55,920
own or even things that i personally

1408
00:50:01,349 --> 00:49:58,640
believe but when it comes to like what i

1409
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:01,359
want to discuss in a public realm on

1410
00:50:05,190 --> 00:50:02,559
this issue

1411
00:50:07,270 --> 00:50:05,200
um i try to actually be as evidence

1412
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:07,280
driven as possible i i

1413
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:10,240
to um you know the chagrin of ufo

1414
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:14,160
twitter i hold you up i actually say

1415
00:50:17,990 --> 00:50:15,680
there's nothing

1416
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:18,000
this guy can do to harm us

1417
00:50:21,190 --> 00:50:19,359
he is literally

1418
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:21,200
what what do you do you

1419
00:50:26,309 --> 00:50:24,400
debunk things and you say

1420
00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:26,319
yeah you try you try to debunk things

1421
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:28,640
and then you um give a list in order of

1422
00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:31,200
likelihood of what things probably are

1423
00:50:36,069 --> 00:50:33,839
versus probably not

1424
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:36,079
there's lit there's nothing you can do

1425
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:40,079
to harm any of us you know and and i um

1426
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:42,800
i appreciate what you do and i i

1427
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:45,040
uh you know and and i

1428
00:50:49,430 --> 00:50:46,480
there's nothing that you can do other

1429
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:49,440
than force me to ask better sharper

1430
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:51,119
questions and to

1431
00:50:55,109 --> 00:50:53,040
you know try to um

1432
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:55,119
try to better understand like ways to

1433
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:58,720
sort of reframe the the conversation to

1434
00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:00,640
um get get

1435
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,200
closer to something like a productive

1436
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:05,760
conversation i don't think i can alter

1437
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:07,440
what's gonna happen in government but i

1438
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:10,079
can give an opinion that what they are

1439
00:51:13,829 --> 00:51:12,559
currently doing in in my view and we can

1440
00:51:15,349 --> 00:51:13,839
disagree

1441
00:51:19,910 --> 00:51:15,359
i

1442
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,920
now

1443
00:51:24,630 --> 00:51:21,839
in the grand scheme of everything going

1444
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:24,640
on in the world obviously covid and

1445
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:26,800
actual foreign threats and all these

1446
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:28,960
different things going on this is i

1447
00:51:35,270 --> 00:51:33,280
admit very small but my point is um

1448
00:51:38,470 --> 00:51:35,280
for someone like me who tries to take

1449
00:51:41,109 --> 00:51:38,480
the ufo topic seriously i can't think of

1450
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:41,119
a better argument to make at the moment

1451
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:42,480
other than

1452
00:51:48,309 --> 00:51:46,559
the the government

1453
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:48,319
is handling this in a very deeply

1454
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:51,359
irresponsible way um

1455
00:51:57,190 --> 00:51:54,160
and it's it has some potentially

1456
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:57,200
bad downsides and i don't get it i just

1457
00:52:03,190 --> 00:52:01,200
i purely i don't really get it um

1458
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:03,200
and maybe i'm reading way too much into

1459
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:06,000
this but yeah do you think if they knew

1460
00:52:11,270 --> 00:52:08,079
that aliens were visiting us they would

1461
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:11,280
handle it the way they are handling it

1462
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:14,160
again that's possible right so

1463
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:16,240
what we discussed earlier it's it's

1464
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,720
possible that they conclude that like

1465
00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:20,400
some group of people

1466
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:22,240
like really important

1467
00:52:26,390 --> 00:52:24,960
rights yeah you know you say it's like a

1468
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:26,400
small thing it's not important because

1469
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:27,920
it's just like a few guys getting sucked

1470
00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:30,400
into cults or whatever well i mean a bit

1471
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:36,630
yeah so for the people that this is

1472
00:52:40,230 --> 00:52:38,800
confirming for for the people out there

1473
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:40,240
that this is like something that's

1474
00:52:43,270 --> 00:52:42,160
adding more fuel to like i definitely

1475
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:43,280
believe that the government has been

1476
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:45,680
covering up aliens what they're seeing

1477
00:52:49,829 --> 00:52:48,240
is of course this is exactly the way

1478
00:52:53,109 --> 00:52:49,839
that the government would do it it would

1479
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:53,119
be slow drip um and they would be slowly

1480
00:52:58,230 --> 00:52:55,680
preparing and it would be a small issue

1481
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:58,240
at first but they'd be slowly planting

1482
00:53:02,470 --> 00:52:59,920
the seeds and of course they would show

1483
00:53:04,150 --> 00:53:02,480
up at a religious uh

1484
00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:04,160
place to talk about it in terms of

1485
00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:07,200
preparing preparing the religious people

1486
00:53:10,549 --> 00:53:09,280
and all that stuff and you know they can

1487
00:53:11,990 --> 00:53:10,559
cite um

1488
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:12,000
you know that one report that said all

1489
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:14,400
the religious people were would go crazy

1490
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:15,760
if it turned out that they were aliens

1491
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:17,359
like yeah of course this is how the

1492
00:53:21,030 --> 00:53:19,200
government would do it yeah david

1493
00:53:22,470 --> 00:53:21,040
wilkinson is just that uh

1494
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:22,480
just uh like

1495
00:53:27,430 --> 00:53:24,960
smoothing it over no you'll be fine so

1496
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:27,440
god will be understand

1497
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:30,240
do do i feel that this is the way that

1498
00:53:34,230 --> 00:53:31,920
the government would handle it if they

1499
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:34,240
had this information

1500
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:36,079
i don't know if i'm being honest with

1501
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:39,040
you mick none of it makes any damn sense

1502
00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:41,520
from from my perspective

1503
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:44,640
um this is all such a mess which leads

1504
00:53:48,950 --> 00:53:46,319
me

1505
00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:48,960
maybe more into the this is just a

1506
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:50,559
cluster [\h__\h]

1507
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,720
of a lot of different things some of

1508
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:54,559
which are related another which other of

1509
00:54:00,150 --> 00:53:58,640
which are not of of stuff

1510
00:54:01,430 --> 00:54:00,160
that has all kind of gotten smudged

1511
00:54:02,470 --> 00:54:01,440
together

1512
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:02,480
um

1513
00:54:06,549 --> 00:54:04,960
that's the best i've got right now

1514
00:54:10,069 --> 00:54:06,559
um

1515
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:10,079
but well but also but also i do i do

1516
00:54:15,190 --> 00:54:13,280
think that at this point like i

1517
00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:15,200
yeah i want some answers i think that

1518
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:17,119
the people that are the most invested

1519
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:19,680
and interested in this topic

1520
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:21,520
deserve better

1521
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:23,119
than

1522
00:54:29,030 --> 00:54:24,880
this vague

1523
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:29,040
fueling of conspiracy theories yeah

1524
00:54:33,030 --> 00:54:30,319
and and again

1525
00:54:35,430 --> 00:54:33,040
why do you why do you deserve better

1526
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:35,440
i mean it would be great and everything

1527
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:37,680
just because we're all we're all we're

1528
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:40,880
all citizens and we we all pay taxes and

1529
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:43,359
we all deserve uh you know

1530
00:54:47,190 --> 00:54:45,359
but it's not like you say it's almost

1531
00:54:48,789 --> 00:54:47,200
like you're saying like the ufo twitter

1532
00:54:51,430 --> 00:54:48,799
people deserve better

1533
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:51,440
uh and because we're talking about such

1534
00:54:55,270 --> 00:54:53,280
a small amount of people

1535
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:55,280
uh well the ufo should the government

1536
00:54:59,670 --> 00:54:56,960
step out of its way well i want to

1537
00:55:01,349 --> 00:54:59,680
actually uh satisfy a small group no so

1538
00:55:03,190 --> 00:55:01,359
it's actually to satisfy a lot much

1539
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:03,200
larger group than ufo twitter i guess

1540
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:05,040
what i would argue is

1541
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:06,880
um

1542
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:08,720
again when it when it elevates to the

1543
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:11,119
level of it's on 60 minutes so i'm not

1544
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,200
talking just about ufo twitter right

1545
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:16,000
yeah and and you know i'll say this yeah

1546
00:55:20,950 --> 00:55:18,000
ufo twitter is small

1547
00:55:23,829 --> 00:55:20,960
but the more that i tell random people

1548
00:55:26,470 --> 00:55:23,839
like uh yeah hey i've i've got a podcast

1549
00:55:28,710 --> 00:55:26,480
i talk about ufos and weird [\h__\h]

1550
00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:28,720
a lot more people are invested and

1551
00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:31,920
interested in this then we'll say so um

1552
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:33,760
i think that there's more interest out

1553
00:55:37,109 --> 00:55:34,480
there

1554
00:55:39,109 --> 00:55:37,119
than is obvious and that's why anytime

1555
00:55:43,349 --> 00:55:39,119
someone writes a headline like it gets

1556
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:43,359
clicked on relentlessly um i i think it

1557
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:46,319
it's it is bigger than ufo twitter now

1558
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:48,480
ufo twitter represents the people that

1559
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:49,839
are the most invested that are sort of

1560
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:51,760
willing to talk about it every damn day

1561
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:53,599
of their lives whereas everybody else

1562
00:55:57,670 --> 00:55:55,200
kind of has to get back to their lives

1563
00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:57,680
but yes indeed i think a lot of people

1564
00:56:00,870 --> 00:55:59,680
are interested

1565
00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:00,880
um

1566
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:02,960
and it's not just owed to the ufo

1567
00:56:06,789 --> 00:56:04,880
twitter people although i do think that

1568
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:06,799
the government should care because of

1569
00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:08,160
all the things that i mentioned before

1570
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:10,000
there's a lot of potential very bad

1571
00:56:13,670 --> 00:56:11,760
downsides like do they want to be

1572
00:56:15,829 --> 00:56:13,680
responsible for the next heaven's gate

1573
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:15,839
do they want to be responsible for

1574
00:56:20,710 --> 00:56:18,559
another q anon type situation

1575
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:20,720
um we don't have to guess whether or not

1576
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:22,880
conspiracy culture can lead to bad

1577
00:56:26,390 --> 00:56:24,160
outcomes

1578
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:26,400
you know and

1579
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:30,480
i just think that that more um

1580
00:56:34,309 --> 00:56:32,480
the the more responsibility should be

1581
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:34,319
exercised here in terms of how we're

1582
00:56:37,589 --> 00:56:36,480
going to discuss this going forward how

1583
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:37,599
we're going to communicate with the

1584
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:39,920
public going forward

1585
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:41,280
uh

1586
00:56:45,190 --> 00:56:43,119
again you know it comes down to

1587
00:56:47,030 --> 00:56:45,200
interpret your own personal feeling or

1588
00:56:49,190 --> 00:56:47,040
interpretation as to how dangerous or

1589
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:49,200
bad that could really be

1590
00:56:51,030 --> 00:56:50,160
um

1591
00:56:54,069 --> 00:56:51,040
but

1592
00:56:55,829 --> 00:56:54,079
yeah i i think it is very very bad the

1593
00:56:57,270 --> 00:56:55,839
way that is currently being handled and

1594
00:56:59,030 --> 00:56:57,280
i think they could do a lot better i

1595
00:57:00,710 --> 00:56:59,040
think we all deserve a lot better ufo

1596
00:57:03,270 --> 00:57:00,720
twitter deserves a lot better i think

1597
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:03,280
the american public deserve a lot better

1598
00:57:11,510 --> 00:57:05,839
do you think the gilly brand amendment

1599
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:12,390
so i mean

1600
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:15,760
that amendment is that's sort of its own

1601
00:57:20,789 --> 00:57:18,079
conversation i don't know um

1602
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:20,799
what what what i mean what do you think

1603
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:21,599
well

1604
00:57:24,309 --> 00:57:22,960
how do you feel about that amendment in

1605
00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:24,319
general i don't think we've talked about

1606
00:57:26,710 --> 00:57:25,119
this

1607
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,720
no it just kind of came out of nowhere

1608
00:57:30,710 --> 00:57:28,400
and it's very interesting like

1609
00:57:33,750 --> 00:57:30,720
essentially what it's doing is is this

1610
00:57:36,150 --> 00:57:33,760
um establishing this office which is a

1611
00:57:37,190 --> 00:57:36,160
pretty big deal i think uh the advisory

1612
00:57:39,270 --> 00:57:37,200
committee

1613
00:57:42,309 --> 00:57:39,280
uh we talked briefly earlier about how

1614
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:42,319
they had a a wacky interpretation of the

1615
00:57:46,549 --> 00:57:44,400
term ufo and because they needed to

1616
00:57:48,710 --> 00:57:46,559
shoehorn things that are under the sea

1617
00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:48,720
into uap

1618
00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:51,119
uh and then they have this

1619
00:57:55,270 --> 00:57:52,960
committee called the aerial and

1620
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:55,280
trans-medium phenomena advisory

1621
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:56,319
committee

1622
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:58,480
right maybe they should call it the atp

1623
00:58:01,510 --> 00:58:00,160
instead of the aerial and trans-medium

1624
00:58:02,549 --> 00:58:01,520
phenomena

1625
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:02,559
uh but

1626
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:04,559
yeah and it's like 20 people on the

1627
00:58:08,710 --> 00:58:06,720
committee and people from nasa people in

1628
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:08,720
the faa national sciences science and

1629
00:58:11,910 --> 00:58:10,240
the people from

1630
00:58:15,190 --> 00:58:11,920
uh rv lobe

1631
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:15,200
and people from the scu

1632
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:16,240
yeah and

1633
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:17,119
yeah

1634
00:58:23,349 --> 00:58:21,119
i'll give you

1635
00:58:25,510 --> 00:58:23,359
my take on this which again is not going

1636
00:58:26,710 --> 00:58:25,520
to go over with the people the law some

1637
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,720
of the people that i know not not

1638
00:58:29,829 --> 00:58:28,720
everybody there's some people that uh

1639
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:29,839
like what i have to say and other people

1640
00:58:33,270 --> 00:58:31,280
who don't but

1641
00:58:35,990 --> 00:58:33,280
i don't want this

1642
00:58:37,589 --> 00:58:36,000
i don't want that that amendment is not

1643
00:58:40,150 --> 00:58:37,599
good to me um

1644
00:58:45,750 --> 00:58:40,160
unless

1645
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:45,760
unambiguously weird is presented

1646
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:49,040
i see no justification so and i'm i'm

1647
00:58:55,270 --> 00:58:51,839
not coming at that as a ufo person i'm

1648
00:58:57,589 --> 00:58:55,280
coming at that as a as a as the average

1649
00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:57,599
discerning person who wants to know

1650
00:59:01,030 --> 00:58:59,119
whether or not their money is being

1651
00:59:02,950 --> 00:59:01,040
spent in the right place

1652
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:02,960
do i want

1653
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:04,400
our government

1654
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:06,000
to

1655
00:59:13,190 --> 00:59:09,280
just be sort of like playing ufo

1656
00:59:15,430 --> 00:59:13,200
larping i guess uh that's what because

1657
00:59:17,670 --> 00:59:15,440
if the data's there then great

1658
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:17,680
investigate those things like if if the

1659
00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:18,960
data shows that there's something

1660
00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:20,799
unambiguously weird and there's a reason

1661
00:59:25,190 --> 00:59:22,720
to do all the things that are in that

1662
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:25,200
amendment then great

1663
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:27,520
but we don't have that data we don't

1664
00:59:31,829 --> 00:59:29,760
even have a confirmation that such data

1665
00:59:33,829 --> 00:59:31,839
exists you've got the the nimitz

1666
00:59:35,349 --> 00:59:33,839
witnesses out there sort of being hung

1667
00:59:36,789 --> 00:59:35,359
out to dry

1668
00:59:38,630 --> 00:59:36,799
they're out there saying that these

1669
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:38,640
things happen but the government isn't

1670
00:59:42,470 --> 00:59:40,319
coming out and confirming that one

1671
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:42,480
specific case which another is another

1672
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:45,599
problem that i have with that uap report

1673
00:59:50,549 --> 00:59:48,480
there's nothing specific in it like

1674
00:59:52,390 --> 00:59:50,559
people draw the conclusion this means

1675
00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:52,400
that the nimitz case was definitely

1676
00:59:56,710 --> 00:59:54,480
weird no it doesn't say that it doesn't

1677
00:59:57,990 --> 00:59:56,720
talk about that case

1678
01:00:00,150 --> 00:59:58,000
um

1679
01:00:02,630 --> 01:00:00,160
you know the situation all if i'm being

1680
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:02,640
honest with you it all it all sucks

1681
01:00:06,789 --> 01:00:04,400
you know um

1682
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:06,799
yeah but like you know you say you only

1683
01:00:11,430 --> 01:00:09,440
would want it if it had unambiguous data

1684
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:11,440
or strangeness but yeah surely there's a

1685
01:00:16,549 --> 01:00:14,480
lot of uaps under the the definition of

1686
01:00:18,710 --> 01:00:16,559
uap that are still very important

1687
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:18,720
national security issues yeah without

1688
01:00:22,230 --> 01:00:20,880
being strange i guess even airspace

1689
01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:22,240
clutter

1690
01:00:25,349 --> 01:00:24,000
and then foreign drones and things like

1691
01:00:27,190 --> 01:00:25,359
that but no but we're already

1692
01:00:30,549 --> 01:00:27,200
investigating all that

1693
01:00:32,390 --> 01:00:30,559
i guess this is this is why this i think

1694
01:00:34,950 --> 01:00:32,400
well it's not that i would think that we

1695
01:00:37,190 --> 01:00:34,960
would be it's like i know we must be and

1696
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:37,200
maybe that's a bit far too big of a leap

1697
01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:39,680
for me for me to make i don't think it

1698
01:00:41,829 --> 01:00:40,480
is

1699
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:41,839
it's like

1700
01:00:47,349 --> 01:00:44,880
obviously we're already looking at

1701
01:00:51,589 --> 01:00:47,359
foreign uh capabilities we're already

1702
01:00:54,150 --> 01:00:51,599
looking at space debris um

1703
01:00:56,390 --> 01:00:54,160
if it turns out that we're we we suck so

1704
01:00:58,309 --> 01:00:56,400
much that we weren't looking at those

1705
01:01:00,549 --> 01:00:58,319
things we've got a way bigger problem as

1706
01:01:04,309 --> 01:01:00,559
david lozando might say right

1707
01:01:07,589 --> 01:01:05,109
yeah

1708
01:01:09,030 --> 01:01:07,599
what this seems to me to be is like

1709
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:09,040
people there are people in government

1710
01:01:13,589 --> 01:01:11,359
who do think that it's possible that

1711
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:13,599
it's aliens

1712
01:01:17,589 --> 01:01:15,599
and that they want to keep this going

1713
01:01:18,950 --> 01:01:17,599
it's like okay but that's great i think

1714
01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:18,960
that's great if you want to keep it

1715
01:01:21,670 --> 01:01:19,920
going because you think it might be

1716
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:21,680
aliens then fantastic

1717
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:24,559
show me the unambiguously weird data

1718
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:27,119
that justifies your actions here

1719
01:01:32,309 --> 01:01:30,000
that's yeah the crux of it for me and

1720
01:01:34,390 --> 01:01:32,319
and if you read it

1721
01:01:35,829 --> 01:01:34,400
yeah like reading this for me it it's

1722
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:35,839
almost like it's written by somebody

1723
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:38,480
outside of government and it's based on

1724
01:01:41,910 --> 01:01:39,839
like the the kind of the popular

1725
01:01:44,069 --> 01:01:41,920
understanding of the issue that's the

1726
01:01:46,549 --> 01:01:44,079
target yes yeah yeah the talking point

1727
01:01:49,829 --> 01:01:46,559
stuff that like louis under will say in

1728
01:01:51,910 --> 01:01:49,839
public yeah uh it doesn't seem to uh be

1729
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:51,920
based on any kind of knowledge about

1730
01:01:55,589 --> 01:01:53,680
what's actually going on it's almost

1731
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:55,599
like they're like you know like like

1732
01:01:59,510 --> 01:01:57,200
someone like you and they're saying like

1733
01:02:01,270 --> 01:01:59,520
oh you should tell us about these things

1734
01:02:03,109 --> 01:02:01,280
well and we should do a better job of

1735
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:03,119
studying them yeah well let me ask you a

1736
01:02:06,549 --> 01:02:04,240
question

1737
01:02:08,390 --> 01:02:06,559
if if the government came out tomorrow

1738
01:02:11,430 --> 01:02:08,400
and they said

1739
01:02:13,430 --> 01:02:11,440
we have unambiguously weird data

1740
01:02:15,430 --> 01:02:13,440
confirming the um

1741
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:15,440
you know say the the testimony of the

1742
01:02:19,829 --> 01:02:17,280
nimitz witnesses let's say they did that

1743
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:19,839
just and they do like we can't release

1744
01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:21,839
the actual data because sources methods

1745
01:02:26,230 --> 01:02:24,319
blah blah blah right but they at least

1746
01:02:28,150 --> 01:02:26,240
make the middle step

1747
01:02:29,750 --> 01:02:28,160
like the middle step the mid there's a

1748
01:02:32,069 --> 01:02:29,760
middle step that's possible which the

1749
01:02:33,029 --> 01:02:32,079
middle step would be

1750
01:02:34,549 --> 01:02:33,039
yes

1751
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:34,559
unambiguously

1752
01:02:40,470 --> 01:02:38,240
the craft did this and that and we don't

1753
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:40,480
we're can't we can't show you that

1754
01:02:44,950 --> 01:02:43,039
but we're saying today that that

1755
01:02:46,829 --> 01:02:44,960
actually is a thing and

1756
01:02:49,910 --> 01:02:46,839
um would you then

1757
01:02:53,029 --> 01:02:49,920
support such an amendment like at that

1758
01:02:55,109 --> 01:02:53,039
point i agree yes let's do this

1759
01:02:56,789 --> 01:02:55,119
i you know first of all i kind of

1760
01:02:59,349 --> 01:02:56,799
support it anyway because i think it's

1761
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:59,359
going to produce more information uh

1762
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:01,280
sure but i also i also kind of don't

1763
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:02,640
support it because i don't really see

1764
01:03:06,069 --> 01:03:03,920
the need for it and it kind of seems to

1765
01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:06,079
me like it's tinged with this this woo

1766
01:03:09,589 --> 01:03:07,280
but the

1767
01:03:12,069 --> 01:03:09,599
the the issue you raise

1768
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:12,079
there if like someone came out and said

1769
01:03:17,029 --> 01:03:15,200
we have unambiguous data i i don't know

1770
01:03:19,029 --> 01:03:17,039
that i would

1771
01:03:20,549 --> 01:03:19,039
uh really trust it you don't know that

1772
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:20,559
you're because like

1773
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:22,240
yeah because i don't trust things that

1774
01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:24,000
the government says i'm not like a

1775
01:03:30,309 --> 01:03:26,480
conspiracy theorist i just recognize

1776
01:03:32,710 --> 01:03:30,319
that they get things wrong and wow

1777
01:03:34,710 --> 01:03:32,720
yeah that's that was the deliberate uh

1778
01:03:36,029 --> 01:03:34,720
like misrepresentation of the data but i

1779
01:03:38,069 --> 01:03:36,039
think there's accidental

1780
01:03:40,789 --> 01:03:38,079
misrepresentations too

1781
01:03:43,430 --> 01:03:40,799
uh two things come to mind one is in the

1782
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:43,440
chilean case uh which people say oh

1783
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:45,200
that's just the chileans but it's the

1784
01:03:49,990 --> 01:03:48,160
chilean military uh uh you know not a

1785
01:03:51,270 --> 01:03:50,000
fairly high level retired generals and

1786
01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:51,280
whatnot

1787
01:03:54,630 --> 01:03:53,520
did a committee very like the one that's

1788
01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:54,640
in front of me in the gilly brand

1789
01:03:58,230 --> 01:03:55,760
amendment

1790
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:58,240
uh of a bunch of experts from different

1791
01:04:03,990 --> 01:04:01,200
domains and they just messed up

1792
01:04:06,309 --> 01:04:04,000
uh this investigation into

1793
01:04:08,309 --> 01:04:06,319
this this one case of the the chilean

1794
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:08,319
navy ufo which was just a plane leaving

1795
01:04:12,150 --> 01:04:10,079
some contrails departing santiago

1796
01:04:14,069 --> 01:04:12,160
airport they announced to the world that

1797
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:14,079
it was unambiguously

1798
01:04:17,349 --> 01:04:16,000
uh unidentified

1799
01:04:18,309 --> 01:04:17,359
and they eliminated everything and it

1800
01:04:21,589 --> 01:04:18,319
was a

1801
01:04:23,109 --> 01:04:21,599
and a genuine unknown they called it

1802
01:04:25,589 --> 01:04:23,119
uh and then the other thing is

1803
01:04:27,990 --> 01:04:25,599
completely separate from ufos the the

1804
01:04:30,150 --> 01:04:28,000
havana syndrome thing

1805
01:04:31,990 --> 01:04:30,160
that i think has

1806
01:04:32,789 --> 01:04:32,000
panels of experts

1807
01:04:34,789 --> 01:04:32,799
who

1808
01:04:36,789 --> 01:04:34,799
we have competing panels of experts now

1809
01:04:39,349 --> 01:04:36,799
we we have you know panels of experts

1810
01:04:40,710 --> 01:04:39,359
who are pushing the kind of politically

1811
01:04:43,270 --> 01:04:40,720
acceptable

1812
01:04:46,069 --> 01:04:43,280
answer which is that it is the russians

1813
01:04:48,549 --> 01:04:46,079
beaming us with secret weapons

1814
01:04:51,029 --> 01:04:48,559
and then you've got the more

1815
01:04:52,630 --> 01:04:51,039
prosaic answer which lots of people

1816
01:04:54,870 --> 01:04:52,640
come up with which which i agree with

1817
01:04:56,470 --> 01:04:54,880
which is probably some kind of uh mass

1818
01:04:59,589 --> 01:04:56,480
psychogenic illness like a type of mass

1819
01:05:01,109 --> 01:04:59,599
hysteria everything so

1820
01:05:02,950 --> 01:05:01,119
if you get a panel coming out saying

1821
01:05:04,950 --> 01:05:02,960
something i'm not gonna necessarily just

1822
01:05:07,109 --> 01:05:04,960
believe them we could have something

1823
01:05:08,789 --> 01:05:07,119
some way of confirming that and i think

1824
01:05:12,710 --> 01:05:08,799
it's worth noting everything that i've

1825
01:05:15,910 --> 01:05:12,720
said regarding ufo uap those issues

1826
01:05:18,069 --> 01:05:15,920
also applies to the havana syndrome um

1827
01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:18,079
now i haven't looked as deeply into the

1828
01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:19,599
havana syndrome

1829
01:05:24,029 --> 01:05:22,559
but again it comes down to either either

1830
01:05:26,950 --> 01:05:24,039
you have unambiguously data

1831
01:05:29,589 --> 01:05:26,960
unambiguously weird data showing that

1832
01:05:32,069 --> 01:05:29,599
the havana syndrome is this

1833
01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:32,079
or you don't and if you don't then we

1834
01:05:37,029 --> 01:05:34,720
have to lean more towards more plausible

1835
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:37,039
um explanations and and it's this is

1836
01:05:39,990 --> 01:05:38,559
this is another one of those ones where

1837
01:05:41,670 --> 01:05:40,000
i think the government has been kind of

1838
01:05:43,430 --> 01:05:41,680
irresponsible

1839
01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:43,440
in terms of how to handle that and part

1840
01:05:46,950 --> 01:05:45,200
of the problem is it's different though

1841
01:05:48,549 --> 01:05:46,960
it is okay

1842
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:48,559
i think it's different because like that

1843
01:05:52,630 --> 01:05:50,559
they don't have this this to the same

1844
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:52,640
degree this veil of secrecy that this

1845
01:05:56,150 --> 01:05:54,720
default classification of things and i

1846
01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:56,160
think we do actually have people who

1847
01:05:59,349 --> 01:05:58,000
think that there is unambiguous data and

1848
01:06:01,510 --> 01:05:59,359
they'll come out and say yeah we've got

1849
01:06:03,510 --> 01:06:01,520
this unambiguous data of white matter

1850
01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:03,520
changes in the brains of people

1851
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:05,200
uh we've got this unambiguous set of

1852
01:06:08,870 --> 01:06:06,640
symptoms or whatever that so we've got

1853
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:08,880
unambiguous like reports of sounds

1854
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:10,799
happening followed by symptoms they

1855
01:06:14,069 --> 01:06:12,640
think it's unambiguous and then they're

1856
01:06:16,549 --> 01:06:14,079
saying that

1857
01:06:19,109 --> 01:06:16,559
uh and they're saying absolutely uh that

1858
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:19,119
uh uh the simplest explanation here is

1859
01:06:22,549 --> 01:06:20,799
is this secret weapon

1860
01:06:24,549 --> 01:06:22,559
but we're not seeing that on the ufo

1861
01:06:26,549 --> 01:06:24,559
side we're not seeing anybody like

1862
01:06:27,589 --> 01:06:26,559
championing that from within within the

1863
01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:27,599
government

1864
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:29,280
uh we don't have this this competing

1865
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:31,440
interest we have we have this secrecy

1866
01:06:35,349 --> 01:06:32,960
and we have this

1867
01:06:37,829 --> 01:06:35,359
uh facade essentially which could be

1868
01:06:40,309 --> 01:06:37,839
true could be not of them saying yeah we

1869
01:06:42,230 --> 01:06:40,319
don't we know it is ambiguous so you

1870
01:06:43,990 --> 01:06:42,240
know i don't i don't i don't think it's

1871
01:06:45,910 --> 01:06:44,000
it's they're doing the same type of bad

1872
01:06:48,789 --> 01:06:45,920
job it's a different type of bad job in

1873
01:06:51,910 --> 01:06:48,799
that they are allowing politics

1874
01:06:53,589 --> 01:06:51,920
uh to drive which explanation they think

1875
01:06:56,230 --> 01:06:53,599
is the best with havana syndrome which

1876
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:56,240
is very different to the ufo thing

1877
01:07:00,950 --> 01:06:58,640
yeah no i mean yeah no i

1878
01:07:02,390 --> 01:07:00,960
yeah i agree

1879
01:07:03,829 --> 01:07:02,400
all right

1880
01:07:05,349 --> 01:07:03,839
yeah no um

1881
01:07:07,109 --> 01:07:05,359
that's the thing about you mick is this

1882
01:07:08,549 --> 01:07:07,119
um when you

1883
01:07:10,630 --> 01:07:08,559
i don't just disagree with you by

1884
01:07:12,630 --> 01:07:10,640
default ever like i always listen to

1885
01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:12,640
what you say and then i'm like okay well

1886
01:07:17,109 --> 01:07:15,119
i know you're telling me this in a way

1887
01:07:18,230 --> 01:07:17,119
that i hadn't thought about before so i

1888
01:07:20,309 --> 01:07:18,240
i agree

1889
01:07:21,589 --> 01:07:20,319
um yeah well there and i i i same

1890
01:07:24,309 --> 01:07:21,599
likewise with you like i haven't really

1891
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:24,319
thought that much about the degree of

1892
01:07:27,670 --> 01:07:26,640
um you know the harm it might do with

1893
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:27,680
people

1894
01:07:31,430 --> 01:07:29,280
you know having their cult beliefs

1895
01:07:33,670 --> 01:07:31,440
reinforced yeah i think

1896
01:07:35,349 --> 01:07:33,680
more i think about ufos i think uh in

1897
01:07:36,549 --> 01:07:35,359
general people start distrusting the

1898
01:07:38,390 --> 01:07:36,559
government more and then they start

1899
01:07:40,150 --> 01:07:38,400
believing in q anon and things like that

1900
01:07:42,230 --> 01:07:40,160
but i guess it could be more specific

1901
01:07:45,029 --> 01:07:42,240
that they actually start believing in it

1902
01:07:48,549 --> 01:07:45,039
can be ufo type cults yeah i mean it can

1903
01:07:50,230 --> 01:07:48,559
be specific or it can just be um

1904
01:07:52,150 --> 01:07:50,240
it can be things that you also don't

1905
01:07:54,390 --> 01:07:52,160
necessarily see coming which i think is

1906
01:07:55,510 --> 01:07:54,400
an intelligence issue right like one of

1907
01:07:57,029 --> 01:07:55,520
the things that the intelligence

1908
01:07:58,950 --> 01:07:57,039
committee does

1909
01:08:02,549 --> 01:07:58,960
intelligence community does is they try

1910
01:08:04,390 --> 01:08:02,559
to foresee as best they can potential

1911
01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:04,400
threats that can come down the road

1912
01:08:07,670 --> 01:08:06,640
which is why it's especially bizarre to

1913
01:08:09,750 --> 01:08:07,680
me

1914
01:08:12,789 --> 01:08:09,760
like you guys are

1915
01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:12,799
in the middle of manufacturing

1916
01:08:18,630 --> 01:08:15,200
intentionally or not

1917
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:18,640
more stuff that could create potential

1918
01:08:22,229 --> 01:08:20,400
issues for you down the road and that's

1919
01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:22,239
where i'm like what the hell are y'all

1920
01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:24,880
doing can you just get

1921
01:08:29,189 --> 01:08:27,520
can we get some some semblance of of

1922
01:08:31,510 --> 01:08:29,199
sanity on this issue we've got right

1923
01:08:33,349 --> 01:08:31,520
because right now

1924
01:08:35,189 --> 01:08:33,359
barack obama's come out and talked about

1925
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:35,199
it bill nelson is talking about it all

1926
01:08:39,669 --> 01:08:37,520
the time you got serious scientists like

1927
01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:39,679
avi loeb you've got um and then you've

1928
01:08:44,309 --> 01:08:41,600
got louis lozando and the government is

1929
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:44,319
not saying at any point louis lozando is

1930
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:46,480
just some

1931
01:08:49,829 --> 01:08:48,159
they're not

1932
01:08:51,590 --> 01:08:49,839
it's complicated right but they're

1933
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:51,600
they're definitely not like just coming

1934
01:08:54,630 --> 01:08:53,199
out and saying everything lou elizado

1935
01:08:56,309 --> 01:08:54,640
says is [\h__\h]

1936
01:08:57,990 --> 01:08:56,319
they're not saying that they're not

1937
01:08:59,829 --> 01:08:58,000
completely discrediting him they're

1938
01:09:00,870 --> 01:08:59,839
doing little things

1939
01:09:03,189 --> 01:09:00,880
um

1940
01:09:05,189 --> 01:09:03,199
all his emails were deleted sorry yeah

1941
01:09:08,950 --> 01:09:05,199
well no you

1942
01:09:10,709 --> 01:09:08,960
damn it you just actually helped

1943
01:09:12,789 --> 01:09:10,719
like you're not confirming it one way or

1944
01:09:14,630 --> 01:09:12,799
the other in fact what you just did is

1945
01:09:16,709 --> 01:09:14,640
you just said you deleted all his emails

1946
01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:16,719
therefore you're kind of perpetuating

1947
01:09:19,829 --> 01:09:17,839
the thing

1948
01:09:21,829 --> 01:09:19,839
again i'm not saying anything one way or

1949
01:09:25,269 --> 01:09:21,839
the other i again i'm an evidence driven

1950
01:09:26,950 --> 01:09:25,279
person i think lou elizondo is sincere

1951
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:26,960
you know but

1952
01:09:32,229 --> 01:09:30,080
but if he is i would tend to think that

1953
01:09:34,709 --> 01:09:32,239
if he's full of crap then the government

1954
01:09:36,709 --> 01:09:34,719
should should do something about that

1955
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:36,719
yeah you've gotten what is it what if

1956
01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:39,120
he's a government plant maybe he's uh

1957
01:09:43,110 --> 01:09:41,120
trying to he's like uh in the vanguard

1958
01:09:45,990 --> 01:09:43,120
of this soft disclosure with tom delong

1959
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:46,000
and whatnot and and and and

1960
01:09:51,669 --> 01:09:49,199
you know it's hard to view any of this

1961
01:09:54,149 --> 01:09:51,679
without coming to a conclusion where

1962
01:09:56,149 --> 01:09:54,159
like some level of conspiracy almost

1963
01:09:58,310 --> 01:09:56,159
must be involved whether we're talking

1964
01:10:02,310 --> 01:09:58,320
about a mundane relatively small

1965
01:10:04,149 --> 01:10:02,320
conspiracy or a large grand conspiracy

1966
01:10:07,110 --> 01:10:04,159
like

1967
01:10:09,270 --> 01:10:07,120
this is a tough one because there are so

1968
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:09,280
many there are so many moving pieces to

1969
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:10,800
it and so many things that have happened

1970
01:10:16,310 --> 01:10:12,719
you've got the the bigelow thing that

1971
01:10:17,990 --> 01:10:16,320
led to the tsa thing to the now you've

1972
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:18,000
got an actual report you've got the

1973
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:19,760
senate intelligence committee actually

1974
01:10:22,950 --> 01:10:20,880
looking now

1975
01:10:25,030 --> 01:10:22,960
avril haynes is actually talking about

1976
01:10:27,189 --> 01:10:25,040
it on the record

1977
01:10:28,630 --> 01:10:27,199
more is coming an office might be

1978
01:10:31,990 --> 01:10:28,640
established like

1979
01:10:33,430 --> 01:10:32,000
the it it's so crazy how far this is all

1980
01:10:34,390 --> 01:10:33,440
managed to get

1981
01:10:37,350 --> 01:10:34,400
um

1982
01:10:39,030 --> 01:10:37,360
if there's very little to it yeah what

1983
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:39,040
do you think of uh

1984
01:10:44,149 --> 01:10:42,000
bill nelson the administrator of nasa uh

1985
01:10:45,990 --> 01:10:44,159
senator former senator former astronaut

1986
01:10:48,470 --> 01:10:46,000
is he a former astronaut

1987
01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:48,480
yeah yeah he's a former astronaut and

1988
01:10:52,149 --> 01:10:50,320
yeah he went to the space as a senator i

1989
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:52,159
believe yeah so you know he like my

1990
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:53,920
impression of him just i don't want to

1991
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:55,679
spoil your impression of him but like it

1992
01:10:59,430 --> 01:10:57,199
seems a bit

1993
01:11:01,270 --> 01:10:59,440
like i don't know flowery in his

1994
01:11:03,030 --> 01:11:01,280
descriptions of things it's talking

1995
01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:03,040
about the miracles of nature and how

1996
01:11:06,630 --> 01:11:05,040
wonderful the universe is and how there

1997
01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:06,640
must be life somewhere

1998
01:11:09,990 --> 01:11:08,080
and he doesn't really give any nitty

1999
01:11:12,229 --> 01:11:10,000
gritty nuts and bolts details like he

2000
01:11:14,149 --> 01:11:12,239
gives very vague descriptions of the

2001
01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:14,159
search for life um

2002
01:11:18,070 --> 01:11:15,760
like there's maybe there's a planet and

2003
01:11:19,669 --> 01:11:18,080
another galaxy and that planet has a

2004
01:11:21,270 --> 01:11:19,679
dot pass in front of it and that means

2005
01:11:23,590 --> 01:11:21,280
that it's uh

2006
01:11:25,430 --> 01:11:23,600
uh you know a star the star in another

2007
01:11:27,830 --> 01:11:25,440
galaxy anyway yeah he gives these very

2008
01:11:29,270 --> 01:11:27,840
vague things

2009
01:11:31,189 --> 01:11:29,280
but people got very excited when he

2010
01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:31,199
talked about the possibility of

2011
01:11:35,110 --> 01:11:32,880
extraterrestrial life

2012
01:11:36,950 --> 01:11:35,120
yeah perhaps you know less so than with

2013
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:36,960
avril haynes but you know what did you

2014
01:11:40,229 --> 01:11:38,480
think about about him like his

2015
01:11:42,149 --> 01:11:40,239
performance last night in his previous

2016
01:11:44,470 --> 01:11:42,159
statement

2017
01:11:46,950 --> 01:11:44,480
um i think

2018
01:11:49,350 --> 01:11:46,960
bill nelson seems to be someone who does

2019
01:11:52,229 --> 01:11:49,360
have a personal interest in this in the

2020
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:52,239
in the subject um and i don't mean that

2021
01:11:55,669 --> 01:11:54,480
in a negative way at all i mean that in

2022
01:11:58,149 --> 01:11:55,679
uh

2023
01:12:02,310 --> 01:11:58,159
he just seems to um when he talks about

2024
01:12:06,630 --> 01:12:02,320
he seems to seems to be well aware of

2025
01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:06,640
ufo um history and lore and seems to be

2026
01:12:10,470 --> 01:12:08,880
um

2027
01:12:11,910 --> 01:12:10,480
is interested

2028
01:12:13,350 --> 01:12:11,920
and

2029
01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:13,360
i would also say another thing which is

2030
01:12:18,870 --> 01:12:16,000
like nasa has had difficulty funding

2031
01:12:20,390 --> 01:12:18,880
things for a very long time um you know

2032
01:12:22,550 --> 01:12:20,400
obviously we're in the middle of a

2033
01:12:24,310 --> 01:12:22,560
situation where you know the private

2034
01:12:25,510 --> 01:12:24,320
space corporations are kind of getting

2035
01:12:28,630 --> 01:12:25,520
more done

2036
01:12:30,709 --> 01:12:28,640
than uh nasa is able to so he's probably

2037
01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:30,719
looking at a lot of this in terms of

2038
01:12:35,910 --> 01:12:33,760
like how can i get the public excited in

2039
01:12:38,870 --> 01:12:35,920
the same way that the public used to be

2040
01:12:41,030 --> 01:12:38,880
excited about space well

2041
01:12:43,110 --> 01:12:41,040
damn if i were in his position i would

2042
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:43,120
probably be banking on alien life too as

2043
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,679
a thing that um like because it is

2044
01:12:50,550 --> 01:12:47,679
exciting like it's like it's like and

2045
01:12:53,270 --> 01:12:50,560
honestly it's pretty good odds like yeah

2046
01:12:54,790 --> 01:12:53,280
we'll probably eventually confirm

2047
01:12:55,990 --> 01:12:54,800
eventually

2048
01:12:58,950 --> 01:12:56,000
uh i don't even think this would be

2049
01:13:01,270 --> 01:12:58,960
controversial for you like no eventually

2050
01:13:03,669 --> 01:13:01,280
we probably will confirm there's some

2051
01:13:06,390 --> 01:13:03,679
life out there somewhere in all

2052
01:13:08,470 --> 01:13:06,400
probability and i think for the head of

2053
01:13:10,310 --> 01:13:08,480
nasa to come out and say

2054
01:13:12,149 --> 01:13:10,320
yeah there probably is life out there

2055
01:13:15,110 --> 01:13:12,159
and we're gonna find it

2056
01:13:18,470 --> 01:13:15,120
from a funding perspective is a pretty

2057
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:18,480
good bet um and i don't read a lot more

2058
01:13:23,750 --> 01:13:20,960
into it than that now when he does make

2059
01:13:26,149 --> 01:13:23,760
specific comments about

2060
01:13:28,310 --> 01:13:26,159
i've read the uap report and i knew

2061
01:13:30,709 --> 01:13:28,320
about stuff before that and i've talked

2062
01:13:34,070 --> 01:13:30,719
to the pilots and i believe them

2063
01:13:35,990 --> 01:13:34,080
that's again that falls more into the

2064
01:13:38,630 --> 01:13:36,000
i think that's kind of irresponsible

2065
01:13:40,790 --> 01:13:38,640
category because

2066
01:13:43,350 --> 01:13:40,800
unless if bill nelson has seen the

2067
01:13:45,669 --> 01:13:43,360
unambiguously weird data

2068
01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:45,679
i don't see a justification necessarily

2069
01:13:51,750 --> 01:13:48,640
for his commentary there um other than

2070
01:13:53,750 --> 01:13:51,760
again to sort of excite the public uh to

2071
01:13:56,310 --> 01:13:53,760
be excited about the idea the potential

2072
01:13:58,310 --> 01:13:56,320
possibility but that that's complicated

2073
01:13:59,030 --> 01:13:58,320
because it's like

2074
01:14:02,870 --> 01:13:59,040
if

2075
01:14:06,310 --> 01:14:02,880
unambiguously weird data

2076
01:14:07,830 --> 01:14:06,320
um it's kind of a slimy move

2077
01:14:09,590 --> 01:14:07,840
i guess

2078
01:14:11,110 --> 01:14:09,600
i think a lot of these people

2079
01:14:13,030 --> 01:14:11,120
yeah a lot of these people who are like

2080
01:14:15,030 --> 01:14:13,040
you know the kind of higher-ups who have

2081
01:14:16,870 --> 01:14:15,040
become convinced or you know people have

2082
01:14:19,270 --> 01:14:16,880
become convinced like chris mellon and

2083
01:14:20,950 --> 01:14:19,280
uh and maybe alexander

2084
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:20,960
and and nelson

2085
01:14:26,070 --> 01:14:22,800
i think partly to become convinced

2086
01:14:27,750 --> 01:14:26,080
because of uh just talking to the pilots

2087
01:14:30,550 --> 01:14:27,760
yeah i think this is yeah talking to

2088
01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:30,560
eyewitnesses you know a place uh jack

2089
01:14:35,110 --> 01:14:33,120
vale is convinced of the you know

2090
01:14:36,390 --> 01:14:35,120
something because of all the people who

2091
01:14:38,229 --> 01:14:36,400
told him that something happened and

2092
01:14:40,390 --> 01:14:38,239
eventually he comes to believe it and i

2093
01:14:42,790 --> 01:14:40,400
think bill nelson

2094
01:14:45,270 --> 01:14:42,800
probably feels like it's somewhat

2095
01:14:46,950 --> 01:14:45,280
unambiguous because of all these high

2096
01:14:48,630 --> 01:14:46,960
quality men and women who have given

2097
01:14:50,310 --> 01:14:48,640
these these reports

2098
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:50,320
which i think is a mistake it's so

2099
01:14:56,149 --> 01:14:53,360
frustrating because again it's like

2100
01:14:58,470 --> 01:14:56,159
the data is either there or it isn't um

2101
01:15:00,630 --> 01:14:58,480
so the data the reason i pound on that

2102
01:15:04,149 --> 01:15:00,640
issue is like especially with the nimitz

2103
01:15:08,149 --> 01:15:06,550
the data would confirm it or not right

2104
01:15:11,189 --> 01:15:08,159
it's really actually

2105
01:15:12,070 --> 01:15:11,199
yeah and the idea that someone knows and

2106
01:15:15,350 --> 01:15:12,080
then

2107
01:15:17,990 --> 01:15:15,360
we're left with this um where people are

2108
01:15:20,470 --> 01:15:18,000
debating it is like

2109
01:15:22,149 --> 01:15:20,480
absolutely infuriating and i don't see

2110
01:15:25,110 --> 01:15:22,159
in that i don't see any good national

2111
01:15:27,430 --> 01:15:25,120
security reason why

2112
01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:27,440
we can't get that cleared up

2113
01:15:32,950 --> 01:15:29,760
because it's either either again either

2114
01:15:35,510 --> 01:15:32,960
unambiguously weird or not um but i

2115
01:15:36,870 --> 01:15:35,520
guess again and again that's what feeds

2116
01:15:39,110 --> 01:15:36,880
into

2117
01:15:40,870 --> 01:15:39,120
the ufo people thinking that there must

2118
01:15:42,390 --> 01:15:40,880
be something to this because they think

2119
01:15:44,390 --> 01:15:42,400
oh well the data's there but they're

2120
01:15:46,149 --> 01:15:44,400
scared to release it and blah blah blah

2121
01:15:48,310 --> 01:15:46,159
blah and that all adds up and everything

2122
01:15:51,430 --> 01:15:48,320
they're doing makes sense it's really

2123
01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:51,440
easy to get there and i don't go there i

2124
01:15:55,350 --> 01:15:53,280
try to stick to like the basic questions

2125
01:15:57,110 --> 01:15:55,360
like hey government what are you doing

2126
01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:57,120
hey government like what

2127
01:16:01,510 --> 01:15:59,520
you know hey representatives are you

2128
01:16:03,430 --> 01:16:01,520
sure that this is what you want to do

2129
01:16:06,790 --> 01:16:03,440
because you haven't given us the actual

2130
01:16:10,310 --> 01:16:06,800
data to justif to justify your actions

2131
01:16:12,390 --> 01:16:10,320
that's that's how i come at this and um

2132
01:16:14,070 --> 01:16:12,400
some people like the fact that i come at

2133
01:16:15,590 --> 01:16:14,080
it that way and other people i really

2134
01:16:17,590 --> 01:16:15,600
frustrate because i

2135
01:16:19,510 --> 01:16:17,600
i'm kind of like not believer enough for

2136
01:16:21,669 --> 01:16:19,520
the believers and i'm

2137
01:16:24,390 --> 01:16:21,679
not quite a 100 percent full-blown

2138
01:16:26,630 --> 01:16:24,400
skeptic either so i find myself in this

2139
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:26,640
like no man's land a lot of the time

2140
01:16:30,070 --> 01:16:28,480
with this with this topic where i'm

2141
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:30,080
really just coming at it in terms of

2142
01:16:34,149 --> 01:16:31,600
like logic

2143
01:16:35,830 --> 01:16:34,159
rationality

2144
01:16:36,950 --> 01:16:35,840
this make sense

2145
01:16:39,430 --> 01:16:36,960
you know because

2146
01:16:41,350 --> 01:16:39,440
i need things to make yeah i need i need

2147
01:16:43,189 --> 01:16:41,360
i just need it to make sense

2148
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:43,199
like i'm happy to believe in aliens if

2149
01:16:46,790 --> 01:16:44,800
there's unambiguously weird data but i

2150
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:46,800
gotta see that they at least say that

2151
01:16:51,669 --> 01:16:50,239
there's yeah yeah i mean there's a it's

2152
01:16:53,270 --> 01:16:51,679
a tautology it's like something that

2153
01:16:55,189 --> 01:16:53,280
must be true if there's unambiguously

2154
01:16:57,110 --> 01:16:55,199
weird data then

2155
01:16:59,430 --> 01:16:57,120
that's that's it you know we have that

2156
01:17:02,390 --> 01:16:59,440
yeah yeah there's any scientist let me

2157
01:17:03,910 --> 01:17:02,400
say this i i agree with you

2158
01:17:05,510 --> 01:17:03,920
in this this is again this is

2159
01:17:07,590 --> 01:17:05,520
frustrating a lot of people i agree with

2160
01:17:09,110 --> 01:17:07,600
you that currently in the public realm

2161
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:09,120
there is no

2162
01:17:13,590 --> 01:17:12,080
unambiguously weird data that that is

2163
01:17:18,070 --> 01:17:13,600
unambiguously

2164
01:17:19,030 --> 01:17:18,080
weird it's not out there

2165
01:17:21,270 --> 01:17:19,040
currently

2166
01:17:24,070 --> 01:17:21,280
i agree with you and that's why i

2167
01:17:25,350 --> 01:17:24,080
appreciate your continued you know

2168
01:17:27,270 --> 01:17:25,360
efforts in this realm and you're

2169
01:17:29,669 --> 01:17:27,280
continuing to follow and pay attention

2170
01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:29,679
and debunk things as they come along or

2171
01:17:32,310 --> 01:17:31,199
or in some cases

2172
01:17:33,510 --> 01:17:32,320
say

2173
01:17:35,189 --> 01:17:33,520
i don't know

2174
01:17:37,990 --> 01:17:35,199
you know yeah with the limits things

2175
01:17:39,750 --> 01:17:38,000
remain yeah ambiguous you've said over

2176
01:17:40,550 --> 01:17:39,760
and over again you have not you've

2177
01:17:42,310 --> 01:17:40,560
sought

2178
01:17:44,390 --> 01:17:42,320
you've definitely found places where you

2179
01:17:46,550 --> 01:17:44,400
disagree with experts on the nimitz case

2180
01:17:49,669 --> 01:17:46,560
but you have not come to a some solid

2181
01:17:52,630 --> 01:17:49,679
100 percent i know what that was so yeah

2182
01:17:55,350 --> 01:17:52,640
well my goal in investigating a case is

2183
01:17:56,550 --> 01:17:55,360
to take ambiguous data and disambiguate

2184
01:17:58,390 --> 01:17:56,560
it and

2185
01:18:01,990 --> 01:17:58,400
say what that data actually

2186
01:18:04,149 --> 01:18:02,000
means and yeah in an unambiguous way

2187
01:18:06,950 --> 01:18:04,159
and every time i've managed to do that

2188
01:18:08,950 --> 01:18:06,960
so far it has turned out not to be

2189
01:18:11,350 --> 01:18:08,960
aliens or anything weird

2190
01:18:12,790 --> 01:18:11,360
uh but the other ones you know never you

2191
01:18:14,070 --> 01:18:12,800
never actually you never actually get

2192
01:18:16,790 --> 01:18:14,080
over that hump

2193
01:18:18,950 --> 01:18:16,800
where it becomes unambiguously

2194
01:18:20,790 --> 01:18:18,960
a weird thing unambiguously like you

2195
01:18:23,830 --> 01:18:20,800
know moving faster than it could

2196
01:18:25,110 --> 01:18:23,840
possibly move or unambiguously hovering

2197
01:18:26,870 --> 01:18:25,120
without means of support or

2198
01:18:28,630 --> 01:18:26,880
unambiguously having little creatures

2199
01:18:31,030 --> 01:18:28,640
popping their heads out to the top of it

2200
01:18:32,070 --> 01:18:31,040
right we never get that unambiguous but

2201
01:18:34,070 --> 01:18:32,080
we do get

2202
01:18:36,470 --> 01:18:34,080
lots and lots of unambiguous uh

2203
01:18:38,550 --> 01:18:36,480
disambiguation of things that become

2204
01:18:40,550 --> 01:18:38,560
rather boring yeah and look i i think

2205
01:18:42,149 --> 01:18:40,560
that there's a there's a

2206
01:18:43,350 --> 01:18:42,159
a fair shot

2207
01:18:45,510 --> 01:18:43,360
that

2208
01:18:47,350 --> 01:18:45,520
maybe the government does have some data

2209
01:18:50,229 --> 01:18:47,360
of something unambiguously weird i

2210
01:18:53,189 --> 01:18:50,239
that's my my personal feeling maybe

2211
01:18:55,430 --> 01:18:53,199
it's possible um

2212
01:18:57,910 --> 01:18:55,440
but when i'm looking at

2213
01:19:00,229 --> 01:18:57,920
just right now the sort of the totality

2214
01:19:01,510 --> 01:19:00,239
of this particular set of things that

2215
01:19:02,229 --> 01:19:01,520
have played out

2216
01:19:05,750 --> 01:19:02,239
it

2217
01:19:07,910 --> 01:19:05,760
uh the the actions are in my opinion not

2218
01:19:09,590 --> 01:19:07,920
justified by what has been released so

2219
01:19:11,669 --> 01:19:09,600
far to the public is the way that i

2220
01:19:13,590 --> 01:19:11,679
would put it and again that might be

2221
01:19:16,709 --> 01:19:13,600
frustrating for some people for some

2222
01:19:19,510 --> 01:19:16,719
people they're like no just we'll just d

2223
01:19:21,750 --> 01:19:19,520
to do anything that we can't i'm like no

2224
01:19:23,270 --> 01:19:21,760
we can't just do anything we have to

2225
01:19:26,229 --> 01:19:23,280
have a reason

2226
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:26,239
and the reason needs to be

2227
01:19:31,669 --> 01:19:28,320
needs to be grounded in something other

2228
01:19:34,149 --> 01:19:31,679
than the pilot said it needs to be

2229
01:19:37,030 --> 01:19:34,159
no the pilot said and

2230
01:19:38,229 --> 01:19:37,040
the data shows and that needs to be

2231
01:19:39,270 --> 01:19:38,239
confirmed

2232
01:19:42,229 --> 01:19:39,280
um

2233
01:19:45,350 --> 01:19:42,239
and and tell that yeah yeah well and

2234
01:19:46,470 --> 01:19:45,360
maybe it is but and until they can do

2235
01:19:48,790 --> 01:19:46,480
that

2236
01:19:51,189 --> 01:19:48,800
it's hard for me to make a case to the

2237
01:19:52,630 --> 01:19:51,199
general population to regular people

2238
01:19:54,870 --> 01:19:52,640
that i know in everyday life that they

2239
01:19:57,189 --> 01:19:54,880
should even care about this

2240
01:19:58,630 --> 01:19:57,199
it's really tough for me to do that now

2241
01:20:01,430 --> 01:19:58,640
my argument right now for why people

2242
01:20:03,110 --> 01:20:01,440
should care is like

2243
01:20:05,189 --> 01:20:03,120
this is all really weird and i don't

2244
01:20:07,110 --> 01:20:05,199
know what to do with it can you find a

2245
01:20:09,590 --> 01:20:07,120
better you know i want more people's

2246
01:20:11,830 --> 01:20:09,600
eyes on it just because i can't i can't

2247
01:20:13,750 --> 01:20:11,840
figure it out you can't figure it out

2248
01:20:15,590 --> 01:20:13,760
and and um

2249
01:20:16,790 --> 01:20:15,600
it's all very bizarre

2250
01:20:18,550 --> 01:20:16,800
and um

2251
01:20:21,189 --> 01:20:18,560
you know i hope that eventually that

2252
01:20:23,189 --> 01:20:21,199
that we'll we'll get somewhere

2253
01:20:25,030 --> 01:20:23,199
maybe uh i should get on the aerial and

2254
01:20:26,310 --> 01:20:25,040
transmedium phenomenon advisory

2255
01:20:29,590 --> 01:20:26,320
committee

2256
01:20:31,350 --> 01:20:29,600
and uh help them figure stuff out sure i

2257
01:20:33,990 --> 01:20:31,360
i think that would be that would be

2258
01:20:35,189 --> 01:20:34,000
great you know um all right i'll put you

2259
01:20:37,590 --> 01:20:35,199
i'll put you down as one of my

2260
01:20:38,950 --> 01:20:37,600
supporters there you go

2261
01:20:41,189 --> 01:20:38,960
okay

2262
01:20:42,870 --> 01:20:41,199
i'll be the one the one on ufo twitter

2263
01:20:44,310 --> 01:20:42,880
that uh yeah

2264
01:20:45,910 --> 01:20:44,320
all right

2265
01:20:47,030 --> 01:20:45,920
so thank you very much uh is there

2266
01:20:49,110 --> 01:20:47,040
anything else you'd like to say to

2267
01:20:49,830 --> 01:20:49,120
frustrate your followers before we close

2268
01:20:51,910 --> 01:20:49,840
out

2269
01:20:53,189 --> 01:20:51,920
uh no i think i've done enough of that

2270
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:53,199
um

2271
01:20:55,990 --> 01:20:54,080
you know

2272
01:20:57,750 --> 01:20:56,000
look uh the last thing i'll say is just

2273
01:21:00,550 --> 01:20:57,760
look i i appreciate you having me on

2274
01:21:01,910 --> 01:21:00,560
mick uh hopefully for at least some

2275
01:21:02,950 --> 01:21:01,920
subsection of people this will be kind

2276
01:21:04,149 --> 01:21:02,960
of like

2277
01:21:06,950 --> 01:21:04,159
proof that

2278
01:21:09,270 --> 01:21:06,960
you reached out to me totally randomly

2279
01:21:10,950 --> 01:21:09,280
um to just like

2280
01:21:11,830 --> 01:21:10,960
iron this out

2281
01:21:13,910 --> 01:21:11,840
our

2282
01:21:17,030 --> 01:21:13,920
sort of disagreements or whatever and

2283
01:21:19,830 --> 01:21:17,040
it's so fantastic that you did that uh

2284
01:21:21,750 --> 01:21:19,840
and you're not the guy who a lot of

2285
01:21:22,629 --> 01:21:21,760
people you know think that you are and

2286
01:21:24,149 --> 01:21:22,639
um

2287
01:21:25,669 --> 01:21:24,159
you know just keep doing what you do and

2288
01:21:27,430 --> 01:21:25,679
i think it's awesome

2289
01:21:29,990 --> 01:21:27,440
nothing i want to plug right now my

2290
01:21:33,110 --> 01:21:30,000
shows on a hiatus so